To velvia or not to velvia

[biglouis]

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Ok, I just do not get this Velvia thing. I am ready to accept that I am a lousy photographer but the two pictures below illustrate the problems I am having.

 

The colour effects of Velvia, especially for urban landscapes add an attractive photo-realistic feel which I really like. But my problem is that I always seems to block the shadows and blow the highlights in the same frame. This obviously has something to do with the spot metering of the M6 and my choice of subject but as the examples below show, my D-LUX 2 does not have the same problems, although the light had changed to a more even level by that point.

 

I had to set the passes on my slide scanner to 10 in order to get the level of detail in the shadows that I've got.

 

I've been using Velvia to capture early morning shots where the light is uneven, which may be my problem.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated..... because the romance of film is slowly dying....

 

Velvia 50 M6TTL

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D-LUX 2

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[andybarton]

I have always found the tonal range of Velvia very hard to work with too - the contrast in the first shot is just going to be way too much for it to handle. That's why I only ever shoot Astia for colour slides these days, it's a bit more forgiving.

 

If your scanning software allows it, you could try doing one scan for the shadows and one for the highlights, but if the information isn't there because the film hasn't captured it, you're on a hiding to nothing.

 

If you want a wide tonal range, you need to stick with C41, in my experience.

[Rolo]

Louis,

 

that doesn't appear to be a good sample of a Velvia image IMHO. Your Lux image is much better and it shouldn't be.

 

You've little shadow detail and appear to have dragged contrast to compensate. If you're shooting Velvia with broad expanses of bright sky, you might find a Cokin grey grad useful. ( I know there is no TTL facility on a rangefinder, who needs it??).

 

What are you scanning with? Scan as a a negative and invert in Photoshop. Keep the scan low contrast and beef up in PShop. Your Velvia images will 'sing'.

 

Rolo

 

ps - Andy is right of course - you have to capture the shadow detail in the first place. Unless you need projection, or the ultimate in low ISO quality C41 is easier and cheaper. If your learning your film techniques go with that, but keep the ISO down if you can.

[rob_x2004]

Like Homer says..."Mmmmm...Velvia" Wish I could afford to use it.

[biglouis]

Guys

 

Thanks for your input - it is very helpful to be able to plumb the depths of experience in this group and I'm grateful for your responses.

 

Rolo, I tried the invert method you suggested but the results were not a lot better. However, I think that is due to the negative. If the detail ain't there, it just isn't going to come out. BTW, I am using a Plustek 7200i with Vuescan.

 

I think I'll follow your advice and stick with C41 - as Rob points out its a lot cheaper (I couldn't quite believe the price of Velvia when I've been used to paying peanuts for Fujicolor).

 

I've had some good results with C41 and the M6 is just a wonderful piece of machinery - just gorgeous to hold and use. But ultimately, I may have to accept reality, and stick to digital with my R-D1..... or possibly spring for an M8 at some point in the future.....

 

LouisB

[Mountaineer-American]

In my mediocre experience, Velvia works best early in the day or late. Most films work best early or late but this principle is particularly true for films with exaggerated colors like Velvia. To my eye Velvia photographs in bright sun/distinct shadows are worse than the same scene shot with other transparency films. Having said that, I shoot when it fits my schedule & I often use Velvia. When done right, you throw up a Velvia slide on a projection screen and it looks like wet paint. Its magnificent & if you give a slide show people will be impressed and tell you that you are a great photographer.

[biglouis]

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Arlen

 

The day someone tells me a I'm a great photographer will be a milestone, for now I want to get to competent.

 

I agree with you about the exaggerated colours in Velvia. Below is an example from my first roll of Velvia 50. I was so impressed with the way the colours appeared to be fluid and as you describe like wet paint that I went out and bought $70 worth of Velvia in 50 and 100 asa.

 

I think this is a great frame but everyone I show it to shakes their head and says the colours are garish and it is too dark. In fact, if you'd been with me at 7AM on that crisp September morning in Wentworth Street (commonly known as Petticoat Lane) with the sunlight streaking down the street picking out the brightly coloured signs, which made the sidewalk appear to have been vomitted up by a giant sidewalk machine, then it would have looked pretty much like this against that early morning deep blue sky.

 

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[MrEd]

Did you take both shots at the same time? It looks like the second shot has a lot more clouds in it, hence the difference. As Rolo suggested, scanning at low contrast may be worth the try.

As for Velvia, in my experience, it really never worked for early morning or late sunlight. My best Velvia shots are in midday light. Accurate metering is a MUST, as Velvia is an unforgiving creature when it comes to under/over exposed images .

 

Ed.

 

 

 

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[biglouis]

Ed

 

Thanks for the input. Yes, they were taken on the same day but a few minutes in between. The street was taken looking East, into the sun and the picture of the flats was taken looking North-West with the sun coming over my left shoulder. I think there must have been about 10 minutes between the pictures.

 

LouisB

[MrEd]

Mid day light:

 

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[jhild]

I used Velvia from the time when it came out first around 1990 for all my trips to Africa and

China, but this was landscape photting and the Velvia colours and hard contrasts not a problem.When Velvia disappeared I tried some other, like E 100 Gx, but finally ended up

with Provia F 100.I have done some test shooting that showed me that as far as detail and

sharpness is concerned there was next to no difference between the old Velvia 50 and

Provia 100 F/ E 100 GX. What I found out at the same time was that Provia or E100 both give very good colours plus much better shadow detail.

And there is that extra f-stop that sometimes helps a lot. As far as underexposing is concerned Provia is much more forgiving as Velvia which was only 40 ASA anyway.

Now, there is the new Velvia 50 and I have already ordered some rolls for testing but from what I have heard already it´s still only 40 ASA.

If you have a problem with Velvia I think C 41 is not a solution, try Provia 100 F first, that´s what I think...

 

Cheers

 

Jo

[redfalo]

I use the Veliva 50 quite often with my M7. What I would really recommend to do is to put the ASA setting at 40, not at 50. From my experience that helps a lot with the shadows.

 

Do you have more details in the shadows in the first picture when you project the original slide in the old fashioned way? I find that sometimes (depending on the shot) some shadow details are lost after scanning.

 

I have a feeling you could also improve the exposure. At least your fist samle seems to be exosed to the middle part of the building which is completley exposed to the sun. I would have tried to adjust the exposure more to the left / lower part of the building. And maybe do a series of several shots with different settings next time.

 

C41 definetly is more frugal with regard to exact expsoure. But I find the colours and the ultra fine grain of the Velvia absolutly compelling.

 

Yours

Olaf

[Guest darkstar2004]

I have shot alot of Velvia over the years, and have gotten good results with it. The key is even lighting.

 

Velvia does well early and late in the day when making images outdoors. It will also do well in "Sunny 16" situations, provided your lighting is uniform with no shadow areas.

 

Velvia has a narrow exposure latitude; you must take this into account when making images. Velvia just cannot deal with high contrast scenes - to get shadow detail, highlights will be blown out; to get highlight detail, shadow areas will block up.

 

One answer, if you need to photograph a high contrast scene and you are making prints or files from digital scans, is to shoot from a tripod. Expose one frame for highlights, one frame for shadows and combine the properly exposed areas from each frame. The tripod keeps the two exposures "in register" so that they mesh correctly.

 

IMHO, Astia is not the answer - I have blown out the highlights in Astia, too when photographing high contrast scenes. Besides that, the palette of Astia does not compare to the palette of Velvia.

 

Velvia 100 is easier to work with during long ecxposures than is Velvia 50. With 50, you have to make exposure compensation much sooner than you have to with 100.

 

With Velvia 50, exposure compensation is as follows:

1 - 3 sec. No compensation No filter

4 sec. +1/3 EV and 5M filter

8 sec. +1/2 EV and 7.5M filter

16 sec. +2/3 EV and 10M filter

23 sec. +1 EV and 12.5M filter

64 sec.. Not Recommended

 

And with Velvia 100:

1 - 60 sec. No compensation No filter

2 min. +1/3 EV No filter

4 min. +1/2 EV and 2.5M filter

8 min. +2/3 EV and 2.5M filter

 

Hope this helps.