Leica quality control frustrations - lens calibration

[spydrxx]

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A tiny tweak in post processing makes his eyes crystal clear. Most digital images need a slight tweak in spite of what mfrs say as "perfect out of camera".

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[DenverSteve]

11 hours ago, spydrxx said:

A tiny tweak in post processing makes his eyes crystal clear. Most digital images need a slight tweak in spite of what mfrs say as "perfect out of camera".

It’s interesting you think that. I’ve been shooting digital since the late 90s beta-shooting for Canon, then Nikon in ‘99, and I haven’t found that to be true for me at all. I expect, and get, perfectly sharp OOC images with every camera I shoot.  I would accept no less.  I would tell anyone who feels they aren’t getting acceptably-sharp images from their cameras, to have someone, other than them, test-shoot the camera to make sure it’s not operator error. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by DenverSteve

[efour]

I'm not sure if it's only me with such bad luck with Leica items.I start using Leica around 6-7 years ago with an M8 and here go my Leica story

M8 - bought pre-owned, everything was fine, I found I like shooting with rangefinder very much, decided to upgraded to M9p

M9p - bought pre-owned, horizontal alignment off quite a bit, DIY adjusted and it's been good

Summilux 50mm asph, bought pre-owned, I don't have the camera body with me, the shop owner allow me to take it and try, the focus is off, it never nailed focus, the owner ask if I focus it properly and I shown him all my photos shooting with VM40 f1.4 then he knew it's not my problem, I asked if he has a brand new lens, I will just exchange with the brand new lens, the brand new one work without any issue

M10 - I borrowed from a friend for trying it out before I get mine, the ISO dial was not responding, even my friend didn't know that until I tell him, he was on auto ISO since he bought it.

M10 - I bought it for my own after selling my M9p I found it harder to focus than my M9p, I look closely and found both vertical and horizontal alignment both off a bit, I have to DIY again, but taking the red dot off is not as easy as I thought, after DIY adjusted, it's been good

M10p - sell the M10 after 3 years of using, purely want the M10p for its aesthetic, and this time the M10p 6 bit code reader won't read any lens, it refuse to go to auto detect, I must set it manually for each lens, still using it till now ignoring the issue since I know it will be pretty expensive to send it for repair

That's not include some small issues of my other film Leicas such as M3 locked up refuse to advance and stuck in the middle, M6 film counter not reset itself, MP sucking dust into the VF ( I bought it brand new only 3-4 rolls thru it, and rarely change lens in the field ) 

Since most of my items are bought pre-owned and you may say it's my duty to check it before I make purchase, at some point yes, it's my own problem not finding the issues before paying, but to be honest, who can check a camera in details within 5-10 minutes. I'm quite good at checking the camera already but still missed some issues, I always buy used gears. Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fujifilm, all you name it, I never have a single issue buying these gears. Considering paying that much for Leica, I think I deserve getting some decent products but not relying on luck wishing it work as it should.

I now have M10p, MP and M3 plus a few lens which is working for now, but I think I'm done with this brand, I will just use them as is and sell all of them when I lost my faith in it later on. Although I like its unique user experience and giving me some really good result (which I believe I can do the same with other brands' equipment, but just not as enjoyable way as Leica) But still, I'm not paying that much for a really over priced brand and have to do quality control by myself anymore.

[Gavinf]

It's interesting that HDMESA mentions the left hand side that's out of focus, as that has been my experience. Currently two brand new 90mm Summicrons have had the same problem, namely the left hand side (approx 1/5th of the frame) is softer than the rest at f2.0/ ∞. If you focus a tiny amount closer, the left hand side becomes sharp, and the rest of the frame goes slightly soft. At any distance closer than ∞, the problem seems to go away. Both lenses were perfectly calibrated with the RF at all distances. Is it a de-centered lens problem, or is it possible that the sensor is not mounted perfectly flat. That way, they'd find no problem with the lens, as the issue would be with the body. My old Canon 135mm/f2.0 is perfectly sharp edge to edge, corner to corner, wide open.

 

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, Gavinf said:

It's interesting that HDMESA mentions the left hand side that's out of focus, as that has been my experience. Currently two brand new 90mm Summicrons have had the same problem, namely the left hand side (approx 1/5th of the frame) is softer than the rest at f2.0/ ∞. If you focus a tiny amount closer, the left hand side becomes sharp, and the rest of the frame goes slightly soft. At any distance closer than ∞, the problem seems to go away. Both lenses were perfectly calibrated with the RF at all distances. Is it a de-centered lens problem, or is it possible that the sensor is not mounted perfectly flat. That way, they'd find no problem with the lens, as the issue would be with the body. My old Canon 135mm/f2.0 is perfectly sharp edge to edge, corner to corner, wide open.

 

My SL2-S only shows the issue with the 35 APO-M –other lenses appear fine when comparing left and right sides of the frame. It could be that Leica's calibration equipment at the factory is out of alignment and/or has never been upgraded to meet the demands of high-magnification viewing of digital images. If that is true, they need to upgrade their M lens calibration equipment to the same tolerances as their SL lens equipment.

[Kim Dahl]

Can anyone tell me exactly how to test my Leica M and 35 APO lens?  I simply did not believe that a lens can be blurry on one side and sharp on the other.

[hdmesa]

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6 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

Can anyone tell me exactly how to test my Leica M and 35 APO lens?  I simply did not believe that a lens can be blurry on one side and sharp on the other.

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/how-to-check-how-decentered-your-lens-is/

[rtai]

I have been buying brand new Leica lenses since 1998 both M and R and never had any problems I could see in the photos. Maybe I wasn’t looking hard enough? I know the current crop of FLE lenses are more complex to manufacture.

[LocalHero1953]

I have only bought a couple of new M lenses for use solely on a digital M body (Summilux 35FLE, Summicron 50mm AA) and had no problem with them. The only lens that required recalibration was the Apo-Summicron M 90 Asph, which I had bought used. I suspected issues with a couple of others, but each time it was the body that required attention.

My photography typically doesn't depend on edge to bleeding edge sharpness, so I doubt I would notice a limited decentering, but I usually shoot a brick wall or two with a newly acquired lens, and I would expect to notice significant faults.

Edited March 23, 2023 by LocalHero1953