Elmarit-R 90/2.8 2nd version: differences against first version?

[Shepherdphotographer]

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Hello everyone.  I own two Elmarit-r 90 / 2.8s from the mid 60's, I took the second one, because it came to me in excellent condition with the red distance scale.  I am particularly in love with the rendering of this lens in portraits.  I recently found, by chance, a 1991 Elmarit-R 90/2.8 in excellent condition, without having set out to look for it on purpose, by chance.  Can you tell me with the second series (of which the 1991 specimen is part of it) what changes in performance have been made?  I searched Putt's Compendium, but found no information about it.  Thanks in advance!

Edited October 29, 2022 by Shepherdphotographer

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[Shepherdphotographer]

Generally, for experience, new vesions, more recent version, are more saturated and contrasted......

[Shepherdphotographer]

13 minutes ago, cbass said: looks like Leica got looser in that parameter before they swung back the other way by introducing APO lenses. This last paragraph is my opinion and should not be taken as fact. It is only about the 50 and 90 and perhaps Leica did better with other focal lengths in this regard.

I'm agree: I think Leica to move away from the classic performance of the past in rendering.

[Shepherdphotographer]

15 minutes ago, cbass said:

It looks like Leica got looser in that parameter before they swung back the other way by introducing APO lenses.

Yes, I'm agree. In general it seems to me  Leica to move awau from classical rendering.

[Shepherdphotographer]

17 minutes ago, cbass said:

 

I found this:

 

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/252932-type-1-2-or-3-leica-elmarit-90mm-3-cam-f28-lens-for-r3/

[Shepherdphotographer]

And this:

https://www.juzaphoto.com/topic2.php?l=it&t=3010808

[frame-it]

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15 hours ago, Shepherdphotographer said:

Yes, I'm agree. In general it seems to me  Leica to move awau from classical rendering.

yes, i find the newer lenses more clinical

[hansvons]

I bought my Leica R primes for their vintage look AND their well-corrected optics. That changed when Leica introduced aspheric elements for correction, even more so when they went the APO route. 

Back then, all of that was necessary to stay ahead of the pack. Today, you can buy a 35mm Summilux M lens brand new that comes without asph. and APO elements directly from the sixties drawing board. I’m sure it will sell like hotcakes. Go figure.

[hansvons]

15 hours ago, cbass said:

Does that mean that you did or did not like the Aspheric and/or APO lenses?

No. It means that everything comes with a price. You cannot have it all, superb sharpness to the edges, no aberrations whatsoever, creamy bokeh, enchanting flares, and dimensionality and cosmetic flatness at the same time. Some have to give in. Leica realised that and brought back the old classic 35mm Summilux M  that has tons of 'flaws' for a lens made today, which others may characterise as soul. And Leica acknowledges that. 

For portraits, I prefer a distinct flatness, a gentle softness and nice flares when shooting against backlight. Vintage Leica glass without the aspherical and APO element does have that, plus they use old, lead-containing coatings that allow for nice flares. But they are less resolving by quite a margin when compared to SL primes and zooms, tend to glow at full aperture, show vignetting (often quite pronounced), are soft in the corners, bent focal planes (the 35mm Summicron and Elmarit R), and the list goes on. 

So yes, I like modern Leica glass with APO and aspherical elements, but not so much for portraits. Others have a very different view on this, of course. 

[Shepherdphotographer]

On 10/29/2022 at 7:05 AM, cbass said:

I prefer the pre-asph Summicron. 

I have got:

1) Summicron-R 90/2 (first and last version), which I use for portraits when I want a delicate tone and a soft, smooth, bokeh (but not dreamy such as bokeh of Summilux-R 80/1.4), or for old farmhouses surrounded by greenery, in the countryside.

2) Elmarit-r 90/2.8, which I use for portraits of  elderly people, because it highlights more the irregularities of the skin, the wrinkles in all the details, without, however, being invasive, this is by remaining delicate.  This rendering gives a tone of solemnity, wisdom, life lived, sunset, poetry to these people.  I also use it for old doors, stables, mountain huts, because it gives them a rough and drawing tone, without being dreamy, warm and full of warmth and life.

3) Summilux-R 80/1.4, for dreamy atmospheres, suspended in time. 

Each of them has its own personality and choosing one over another depends on what you want to achieve, from your heart.  In fact, true Photography comes from the heart.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Shepherdphotographer