Scanning film, how to start (from scratch)?

[valtof]

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As a follow-up to a previous thread with almost the same title, here is my case :

 

I decided a few weeks ago to go back to film with an M6 after an intense use of the M8 since January ; I'm not complaining about the amazing quality and flexibility of the digital M but, as many of us here, I do think nothing can replace film for black & white photography.

 

I shot several B&W rolls with the M6 and made them scanned by my Lab for 20 €/film on a Kodak HR500, for preview purpose.

The quality is OK, no dust no scratch… but considering that buying a scanner capable of the same quality or even better (am I wrong ?) would cost around 800 € max, it only represents 40 rolls, which is not that much… 40 x 38 = around 1.500 shots compared to the 20.000 shots I already did with the M8 in only six months… !

 

So I’m looking for a good, easy and fast scanning solution, that is : fast scan of a all roll for preview and archiving ; ability to get a quite good scan of a good shot, with no necessary need of the best quality – the “keepers” are not so frequent and I can stand putting some money in that case (direct print or high-end quality scan).

 

Any suggestion, experience and advice welcome.

[valtof]

To be more precise :

 

The Epson V750 sounds interesting. I imagine a flatbed can scan nearly a whole roll in one pass than you obtain a kind of contact sheet at once. But what is the max resolution in pixel for a single view. The Kodak HR500 system provides a 18 Mg / view that is around 3000x2000 pixels. I don't think the Epson can reach more than 1200x800 pixel which is not enough to really judge a picture.

Can somebody here post a link to a 35mm B&W film scanned at max res with the V750 ?

 

The Nikon Coolscan V sounds also interesting for about the same range of price.

The scan resolution is obviously better but I imagine that you can only scan your pictures one by one, which is a long process to get a whole roll scanned.

Can somebody here confirm or does the Nikon has a kind of automatism for several pictures ? And how much time for scanning an entire roll ? Etc...

 

Thanks for your help

[seaninsurrey]

Hi - I use the Nikon Coolscan V and am very pleased with the results. It is capable of batch scanning 6 frames at a time, so you can go away and just leave it. The time it takes to scan is dependent on settings such as digital ICE.

[nobbylon]

I use an epson 4990 which is great with silverfast ai. Plus side is you can use it as a flatbed as necessary. I've heard the 4490 is a good cheaper solution also.

[Kent10D]

Christophe,

 

I'm not exactly sure, because Epson has a habit of using different model numbers for the same product in different countries, but I am currently using the GT-X750, as it is called here in Japan, which I'm guessing is the same as or similar to the V750 you refer to (please correct me if I'm wrong). It has a native resolution of 4800 dpi.

 

Here are a couple of photos I scanned on it just today. Shot with an M6. Kodak 400TX film developed in D-76 diluted 1:1. Post-processing in Lightroom.

 

The first is more of a "tonal" thing, and the second has a bit more detail.

 

I think it's a pretty good scanner, but the film carrier it comes with is really junky. It doesn't hold the film flat properly, to the point that the center of the negative often touches the scanner glass causing Newton's rings. If you can get the film nice and flat, however, I think the quality is pretty good for the price. I'm planning on modifying my film carrier or building something from scratch to try and make scanning easier and more consistent.

 

The Nikon, however, is an attractive alternative, especially if it offers better film handling.

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[Guest tummydoc]

If you only want to scan 35mm I would buy a 35mm film scanner. Either the Nikon or find a second-hand Minolta 5400 or even the Canon 4000-dpi film scanner, whatever it was called. If you have need for a mid-format scanner as well as 35mm, buy the Nikon LS9000. Only if you need to scan large-format would I recommend the Epson, and then only for large and mid-format. Even a 2800-3200 dpi 35mm film scanner, with Vuescan, will give you better dMax than the Epson, although resolution will be about the same.

[valtof]

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It is capable of batch scanning 6 frames at a time, so you can go away and just leave it. The time it takes to scan is dependent on settings such as digital ICE.

 

Thanks Sean,

The batch feature sounds good. I use to have the first Coolscan a long time ago and I remember it was a pain to scan the frames one by one...

Could you tell me a bit more :

1 / What's the max resolution in terms of number of pixel ?

2 / How much time approximately it takes to batch scan 6 frames at a mid/good res like 3000x2000 pix ?

3 / Pardon but what is "digital ICE" ?

 

Cheers

[stunsworth]

Sorry if I'm butting in, but the Nikon is 4000 ppi, a frame at this resolution will take around 2-3 minutes to scan if I remember correctly. Digital ICE is a feature that allows automatic dust and scratch removal - it can't be used on silver based b&w films.

[valtof]

Very nice shots Ken, and the scan quality sounds quite good.

I'm not exactly sure, because Epson has a habit of using different model numbers for the same product in different countries, but I am currently using the GT-X750, as it is called here in Japan, ...

No the V750 is not the same. In Europe the GT-X750 is called Perfection 4990, see the images below. You'll probably recognize the one that is yours. Anyway, I think it has to be quite the same technology.

Moreover, you didn't tell me wha'ts the max res you can get for a 35mm frame in pixels ?

The Nikon, however, is an attractive alternative, especially if it offers better film handling.

One point for Nikon, indeed...

Cheers

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[andybarton]

Sorry if I'm butting in, but the Nikon is 4000 ppi, a frame at this resolution will take around 2-3 minutes to scan if I remember correctly. Digital ICE is a feature that allows automatic dust and scratch removal - it can't be used on silver based b&w films.

 

Steve

 

That's about 2-3 minutes per pass on a Nikon V. Using 16 passes (which gives better results) can take up to around 40 minutes per scan.

[valtof]

Hi, Annie.

 

Thanks for this example. I understand that the second image is a 100% crop of the first, is it correct? If it is correct, then the res of the entire image should be around 3000x2000 pixels, right ? Is it the max res. ? which to me sounds quite enough for my purpose...

 

Moreover, it looks like there is almost no grain on the picture. Is it the quality of the photo itself ? or the scan that would not "catch" all the details, bluring a little the grain ? or a post-process ?

 

Cheers

[stunsworth]

Christophe, a full resolution scan from the Nikon is about 4000 x 6000 pixels, again from memory and I don't have access to my system at the moment to confirm that.

 

I scanned everything at the highest resolution - it's easier to throw away pixels than have to re-scan at a later date. Also when scanning b&w I scanned as 16 bit greyscale to keep the file sizes managable.

 

With the flatbeds I've used the highest native resolutions don't seem to add any detail to the scans, just give bigger files.

[tobey bilek]

IF you can make the film flat, the Epson 4870, 4990, or v700/750 wil make files suitable for 8x10 in prints.

 

To get the film flat, reverse curl the whole roll, put 6 exp strips in a plastic page a weight it down 24 hours, wait a few months for home processed film to stabilise flat, get you film commercially processed and dried, or use the fluid mounting system with the 700/750.

 

You will also have flatness issues with Minolta and Nikon holders. The best Nikon has an accesory glass carrier and there are glass inserts for Epson available from third party.

[Kent10D]

No the V750 is not the same. In Europe the GT-X750 is called Perfection 4990, see the images below. You'll probably recognize the one that is yours. Anyway, I think it has to be quite the same technology.

Moreover, you didn't tell me wha'ts the max res you can get for a 35mm frame in pixels ?

 

Ah, right, mine is the one on the left. Thanks for that. If they'd just use the same name ... they do the same thing with printers, too. The 3800, as it's known everywhere else, is the 5800 here in Japan. Very confusing. Anyway, yes, they do use similar technology, but the V750 has even higher native resolution (6400 dpi).

 

As for resolution, it depends on how the software grabs the frame, but at the native 4800 dpi optical resolution of the scanner I get images from 35 mm negatives that are around 6688 x 4256 pixels, give or take a few. So assuming those are "good" pixels, you should be able to do a lot better than 8 x 10 prints.