Riley Posted October 2, 2007 Share #61 Posted October 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) yikes ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Hi Riley, Take a look here New Leica DSLR System?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ptomsu Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share #62 Posted October 2, 2007 was at my local leica dealer in melbourne today and a very good source says that a r10 with a 40 megapixel sensor taking all existing r lenses will be out next photokina.... I was hoping for more MP indeed, but thught more in the range of 24 - 28MP. Now getting 40MP I wonder if this is not too much and directly gets into competition with MF like H3D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rubidium Posted October 3, 2007 Share #63 Posted October 3, 2007 was at my local leica dealer in melbourne today and a very good source says that a r10 with a 40 megapixel sensor taking all existing r lenses will be out next photokina.... Hmmm ... Sounds like we R addicts need to start buying some bigger hard drives! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 3, 2007 Share #64 Posted October 3, 2007 All I'll say is there's a long way to go with the R system. The DMR is fabulous, and the lenses can only be matched by some of the M stuff. Just having a more ergonomic body with a wee bit faster buffer and the same kind of sensor with more resolution.... well... the R lenses are capable of a heck of a lot more juice than the DMR records (not that it does anything less than a stellar job--it could just be better is all). BTW--I don't think the business proposition is anything like "gain a thousand customers and lose 300" if they're going toe to toe with Nikon or Canon. If they do that, they're likely to lose all their customers. "27-year-old-guy" isn't likely to see past the 1dmark4... or the 5dmark2 or whatever. So we'll just have to see. My $$ is on the next digital R being completely compatible with the existing mount and lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted October 4, 2007 Share #65 Posted October 4, 2007 Really nice pix, Jamie. Really nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share #66 Posted October 4, 2007 So we'll just have to see. My $$ is on the next digital R being completely compatible with the existing mount and lenses. This is what I doubt - there will be some compatibility, but only very restricted and via adapter. But I am not going to bet :-)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 4, 2007 Share #67 Posted October 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let me say first of all that I use film exclusively with my R system, but I guess I will (eventually) have to go digital. That said, I honestly don't understand why there should be a need for a new R mount. I'm convinced that there is unused capacity in the present ROM contact system, which could be used to convey autofocus information between camera and lens. Specifically, detection in camera (with v/f indication of focus confirmation for older lenses) error/feedback-control signal via spare ROM contact capacity, and focus motors on board the lens. Could those who are more knowledgeable than I am tell me where my thinking might be awry? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share #68 Posted October 4, 2007 Let me say first of all that I use film exclusively with my R system, but I guess I will (eventually) have to go digital. That said, I honestly don't understand why there should be a need for a new R mount. I'm convinced that there is unused capacity in the present ROM contact system, which could be used to convey autofocus information between camera and lens. Specifically, detection in camera (with v/f indication of focus confirmation for older lenses) error/feedback-control signal via spare ROM contact capacity, and focus motors on board the lens. Could those who are more knowledgeable than I am tell me where my thinking might be awry? The new mount needs to be for making a full frame sensor (or larger than full frame) work smoothly with the lenses. The relative small diameter of the old R mount obviously does not allow for that. Compare 4/3 mount to the 4/3 sensor size, then you get some feeling about the optimum relation between mount diameter and sensor size. It needs not to be as dramatic as in 4/3, but every mm more diameter makes sensor and lens design easier. Since they are going to AF, they need to seriously consider a new mount anyway, the combination of all that might have been the go for their final decision to build a new mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 4, 2007 Share #69 Posted October 4, 2007 The new mount needs to be for making a full frame sensor (or larger than full frame) work smoothly with the lenses. The relative small diameter of the old R mount obviously does not allow for that. Why's that if the mount was big enough for full frame film? Is the R mount much smaller (if at all) than the one Nikon have used for the full frame D3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 4, 2007 Share #70 Posted October 4, 2007 The new mount needs to be for making a full frame sensor (or larger than full frame) work smoothly with the lenses. The relative small diameter of the old R mount obviously does not allow for that. Compare 4/3 mount to the 4/3 sensor size, then you get some feeling about the optimum relation between mount diameter and sensor size. It needs not to be as dramatic as in 4/3, but every mm more diameter makes sensor and lens design easier. Since they are going to AF, they need to seriously consider a new mount anyway, the combination of all that might have been the go for their final decision to build a new mount. Quatsch. Film is FF, and anyway, the Nikon and Leica mounts are very, very similar in dimensions. If Nikon's is good enough, so is Leicas. There is hardly a company on the market with a higher regard for backwards compatibility than Leica. It won't happen, with the one possible exception of a wider, shallow mount, which allows room for an adapter, taking all existing lenses, and maintaining communications in a transparent fashion, thus satisfying everyone. Olympus made their 4/3 mount so deep for such a small sensor because they badly over-estimated the importance of the angle of incidence on digital image quality. This single design mistake has seriously impacted the success of their system, since their wide-angle lenses can be no smaller than for much larger sensor-based systems. Only their tele lenses are able to fulfil the promise of the smaller sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted October 4, 2007 Share #71 Posted October 4, 2007 Sorry to say, but the oldime Leica owners will not be the customers who will make this company get successful in the future - and I am counting myself into that oldtime users having my big R investment in mind. Companies around the world are tuning in to the reality that population demographics are changing fast. For example, from 2020 to 2030 the number of new entrants to the workforce per annum will be 1/10th it was in 2006. Developed nations will be awash with retired people and older working people, both groups healthier than ever, with more disposable income than ever. So, not so many new photographers and lots of older ones, cashed up. What does this mean for a German company that has a niche position in photography circles? A company that has built its reputation on a proud history of solid, tangible quality and backwards compatibility? What it means is that it is inconceivable that the next SLR from Leica will not be compatible with the existing lens line up. Leica repaid the loyalty and patience of its worldwide fanclub by introducing a digital R and then an M that live up to the brand's status. To blow away such hard earned brand loyalty and admiration when the moment to capitalise on it is ripe is not something we will see happen. We might see focus confirmation or even autofocus (though I'm not so sure about that). And perhaps some stabilised zoomy lenses to go with the latter. But I won't be selling off my gorgeous MF lenses any time soon. In 50 or 60 years the youngers ones here might get the chance to buy them - and you'll pay a fortune for them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 4, 2007 Share #72 Posted October 4, 2007 ...In 50 or 60 years the youngers ones here might get the chance to buy them - and you'll pay a fortune for them! I wouldn't count on that. In 50-60 years we'll probably be shooting 3D HDTV with "cameras" that are pen size. I just had the opportunity to buy a Sinar X with Leaf DCBII back (4 or 6 megapixel), tri color filter shutter, 80mm Digitar and more. They were asking $1500 and would take less. This outfit sold for $58,000 10 years ago but is kind of a joke today. (Except for the basic view camera.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted October 5, 2007 Share #73 Posted October 5, 2007 I wouldn't count on that. <snip> This outfit sold for $58,000 10 years ago but is kind of a joke today. (Except for the basic view camera.) 10 years after Trafalgar you could have bought a ship's Captain's sword for a bargain. One has to wait until these things are beyond useable and become collectable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 5, 2007 Share #74 Posted October 5, 2007 I read somewhere that the new R mount will be square, not round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 5, 2007 Share #75 Posted October 5, 2007 I read somewhere that the new R mount will be square, not round. So will the glass! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 5, 2007 Share #76 Posted October 5, 2007 I read somewhere that the new R mount will be square, not round. Not exactly, but close ... R stands for rectangular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share #77 Posted October 5, 2007 Quatsch. Film is FF, and anyway, the Nikon and Leica mounts are very, very similar in dimensions. If Nikon's is good enough, so is Leicas. There is hardly a company on the market with a higher regard for backwards compatibility than Leica. It won't happen, with the one possible exception of a wider, shallow mount, which allows room for an adapter, taking all existing lenses, and maintaining communications in a transparent fashion, thus satisfying everyone. Olympus made their 4/3 mount so deep for such a small sensor because they badly over-estimated the importance of the angle of incidence on digital image quality. This single design mistake has seriously impacted the success of their system, since their wide-angle lenses can be no smaller than for much larger sensor-based systems. Only their tele lenses are able to fulfil the promise of the smaller sensor. You forget that the new Leica DSLR will have a sensor which is bigger than 24x36 - at least this is what is coming out from meanwhile quite a lot of sources. And BTW - the 4/3 is not a mistake and especially in the wide angle - there is a 7-14 zoom, which is equivalent to a 14-28 in FF. What are you missing? Some more wide angle? I do not :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share #78 Posted October 5, 2007 Companies around the world are tuning in to the reality that population demographics are changing fast. For example, from 2020 to 2030 the number of new entrants to the workforce per annum will be 1/10th it was in 2006. Developed nations will be awash with retired people and older working people, both groups healthier than ever, with more disposable income than ever. So, not so many new photographers and lots of older ones, cashed up. What does this mean for a German company that has a niche position in photography circles? A company that has built its reputation on a proud history of solid, tangible quality and backwards compatibility? What it means is that it is inconceivable that the next SLR from Leica will not be compatible with the existing lens line up. Leica repaid the loyalty and patience of its worldwide fanclub by introducing a digital R and then an M that live up to the brand's status. To blow away such hard earned brand loyalty and admiration when the moment to capitalise on it is ripe is not something we will see happen. We might see focus confirmation or even autofocus (though I'm not so sure about that). And perhaps some stabilised zoomy lenses to go with the latter. But I won't be selling off my gorgeous MF lenses any time soon. In 50 or 60 years the youngers ones here might get the chance to buy them - and you'll pay a fortune for them! Lets just continue this discussion in a year from now, then we will see :-)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share #79 Posted October 5, 2007 I read somewhere that the new R mount will be square, not round. Well, you can always just make fun of these discussions. I do not think it is really adequate, but if you feel better ... ? I would like to know one thing - is this objection against anything new something which is characteristic for most Leica owners? Or is it because people like you are obviously so happy with what they have today so they cannot even think about any creative changes? Who says that the new mount will not take R lenses via an adapter, but only deliver a crop on the new sensor? Who does not understand that moving into this high end niche (larger format) would open complete new markets for Leica? While keeping their old R customers with giving them at least MF and crop on their new flagship? Why can people her not think just a bit out of the box? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 5, 2007 Share #80 Posted October 5, 2007 You forget that the new Leica DSLR will have a sensor which is bigger than 24x36 - at least this is what is coming out from meanwhile quite a lot of sources. Could you point us at these 'lot of sources'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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