Advice Needed - Dealing with Leica About Monochrom Sensor Issue

[Jeff S]

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50 minutes ago, kirkmc said:

I've been looking at used M9Ms. I saw one where the sensor was replaced in 2016. From that point on, do the sensors have any issues over time?

I’ve not read a single report of corrosion issues after the ‘final’ sensor replacement. But I still would only buy one from a reputable dealer like Leica Miami, which only sells them with new sensor, Leica service (if needed) and warranty/return policies. Price is higher, but worth it IMO.

Jeff

[kirkmc]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

I’ve not read a single report of corrosion issues after the ‘final’ sensor replacement. But I still would only buy one from a reputable dealer like Leica Miami, which only sells them with new sensor, Leica service (if needed) and warranty/return policies. Price is higher, but worth it IMO.

Jeff

I'm in the UK, but I take your point. I haven't seen any for sale from UK dealers. Leica UK does have a used 246 though... I would certainly be more likely to buy from them, and pay the few hundred pounds extra. They offer a six-month guaranty. 

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/m-monochrome-typ-246-black-boxed-pre-owned

[Jeff S]

19 minutes ago, kirkmc said:

I'm in the UK, but I take your point. I haven't seen any for sale from UK dealers. Leica UK does have a used 246 though... I would certainly be more likely to buy from them, and pay the few hundred pounds extra. They offer a six-month guaranty. 

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/m-monochrome-typ-246-black-boxed-pre-owned

I own an M(9)M and M10-M, and so would be biased toward one of them. There are, however, many discussions here regarding the M246.

I prefer dealing with known and trusted dealers, even if it takes a while to find an item.  I made some calls, but eventually got on a wait list at Miami for a used MM in 2017, and fortunately got a call 3 days later on a low mileage sample just back from Germany.  Can’t speak for UK, but they turn up here occasionally.  I bought a new M10-M more recently, expecting to sell the MM, but can’t seem to part with it. But the M10-M is so good that I have no interest in an M11-M if it arrives.  

Jeff

[pippy]

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

I've been looking at used M9Ms. I saw one where the sensor was replaced in 2016. From that point on, do the sensors have any issues over time?

Just to get the boring pedantic out of the way right at the start; the corrosion issue was a problem with the cover-glass for the v1 sensor and not the sensor itself but for, simplicity, referring to the situation as a Sensor Problem issue has been in near universal use since it first reared its head so we'll stick to that convention.

IIRC the new sensor became available in Oct(?) 2015. Any camera which had its sensor replaced after that date will, therefore, have the sensor. There has never been a verified case of the v2 sensor corroding. It's true that not all the v1 sensors have corroded but there is always the possibility that they might at any point in the future which is why getting a body with a replaced sensor is so vital.

Philip.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

I'm in the UK, but I take your point. I haven't seen any for sale from UK dealers. Leica UK does have a used 246 though... I would certainly be more likely to buy from them, and pay the few hundred pounds extra. They offer a six-month guaranty. 

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/m-monochrome-typ-246-black-boxed-pre-owned

That 246 looks like a good deal. Would you be able to try before you buy?

If an MM is still of interest Ffordes (in Inverness) currently have a few in stock - as well as a handful of m246 - as seen in the lower half of the list seen here;

https://www.ffordes.com/c/496/digital-rangefinder?p=1&q=496&by=6&me=st&f=srt:3&x=srt

The MM bodies all have low shutter-counts ranging from mid 3,000 to mid 4,000 (which is effectively 'Like new'). Due to the nature of the M246 it isn't possible to determine shutter-activations but, as a rule, they are very reliable cameras.

Philip.

Edited August 31, 2022 by pippy

[Matt01]

Hi, I am in the same situation. I went to a Leica authorised vendor and they told me my sensor was fine. Now it is fully corroded. 
I called the person in charge of Customer Care. They are basically firm in their position. 
Offering 30% for an upgrade = Leica making profit on their mistake. 
I lost completely the desire of owning a Leica after I spoke with their customer care. 
I believe more people are the same situation as us. I am ok to proceed legally.

Matt

[pippy]

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On 9/12/2022 at 4:25 PM, Matt01 said:

Hi, I am in the same situation. I went to a Leica authorised vendor and they told me my sensor was fine. Now it is fully corroded......I called the person in charge of Customer Care. They are basically firm in their position......I am ok to proceed legally.

Have you read through this thread? On what grounds do you hope to build a legal case? The following quote is taken from the very first paragraph where Leica's guarantee is concerned;

"The product warranty term ("period of cover") begins on the day of purchase from an authorized LEICA dealership and ends latest two years after that date. During the period of cover, LEICA shall remedy any complaints due to manufacturing faults and material defects free of charge."

The M9 was replaced by the M240 in September 2012 - a decade ago this month - so even the very last batch of M9 cameras is now ten years old which, obviously, is eight years outside the period of guarantee for any failure including those "due to manufacturing faults and material defects" as stated above.

Leica, to their credit, offered a free-of-charge replacement service for corroded cover-glass until 2017; five years after M9 production ceased and at least three years outside of the statutory period of guarantee. The manufacturer of the v2 sensor/cover-glass units ceased production of these in 2020. Henceforth any M9 with a corroded cover-glass can no longer be repaired by Leica as replacements are simply no longer available.

Edited September 15, 2022 by pippy

[Jeff S]

But an exciting first post… lawsuit and done.

Jeff