New simpler A La Carte Program or start with MP request.

[Sean ASA]

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I could have put this under the Why I won't be buying a M11 thread, but the underling reason crosses over beyond the M11. It's this, The M11 (along with the M10R) is one of the first Leicas to have a current latest and greatest sensor, rather than being one generation behind, which frankly is how it should be. The problem is I don't like the standard bodies, I much prefer the MP variants and if going black I personally prefer the BP on brass over the Textured paint on aluminium. Problem being that when the MP or D or BP version is released I can't rationalise buying half way through the cycle. Some folks change half way through but I beleive most don't. 

I'm not interested in every element being bespoke, that can be saved for Autograph Limited editions, I imagine leather covering in multiple colours is a big hold up as opposed to screwing in a shutter release, picking up a Red, Black or metal Screw for the dot (RF adjustment portal) having 3 body materials on hand BP on brass, Paint on aluminium for lighter body, Chrome. And all the other things that are easy to change. (I'd love to be able to choose a D option from the get go, but appreciate there's more to that change). 

Now if I simplify the above it's actually this, start with MP specification but with three finishes instead of 2. BP-Brass, Paint textured on aluminium and Chrome all with script and all with metal screws. Then reenergise the model half way through with Limited collectables, M-D (though in ideal world I'd have the D in the starting line up!) and a cheaper S line.. It's the only way I'm going to buy new, newest tech in the best body style, limited collectable or downsized tech in a cheaper S model. 

 

 

  

 

 

[wizard]

I agree with what you say. I also hate having to wait for an M11P to get rid of the red dot and to have that lovely Leica script on the top cover. They should offer that as an option right from the start.

[Kreeshp]

Leica engages in a clever strategy of price laddering (see Apple for another company that employs this approach).  By releasing a base model, then 'upgraded' versions slowly over the life cycle of the product, they maximize revenues and profits.

 

It isn't about what's convenient for the customer or what provides the best value for customers.  It's about reaping as much profit as possible with the same platform with small but incremental upgrades.  Some customers will always upgrade to buy the latest or the most premium product and it's those people who I have to thank for supporting the used Leica market. 

[Kwesi]

2 hours ago, Sean ASA said:

I could have put this under the Why I won't be buying a M11 thread, but the underling reason crosses over beyond the M11. It's this, The M11 (along with the M10R) is one of the first Leicas to have a current latest and greatest sensor, rather than being one generation behind, which frankly is how it should be. The problem is I don't like the standard bodies, I much prefer the MP variants and if going black I personally prefer the BP on brass over the Textured paint on aluminium. Problem being that when the MP or D or BP version is released I can't rationalise buying half way through the cycle. Some folks change half way through but I beleive most don't. 

I'm not interested in every element being bespoke, that can be saved for Autograph Limited editions, I imagine leather covering in multiple colours is a big hold up as opposed to screwing in a shutter release, picking up a Red, Black or metal Screw for the dot (RF adjustment portal) having 3 body materials on hand BP on brass, Paint on aluminium for lighter body, Chrome. And all the other things that are easy to change. (I'd love to be able to choose a D option from the get go, but appreciate there's more to that change). 

Now if I simplify the above it's actually this, start with MP specification but with three finishes instead of 2. BP-Brass, Paint textured on aluminium and Chrome all with script and all with metal screws. Then reenergise the model half way through with Limited collectables, M-D (though in ideal world I'd have the D in the starting line up!) and a cheaper S line.. It's the only way I'm going to buy new, newest tech in the best body style, limited collectable or downsized tech in a cheaper S model. 

 

 

  

 

 

I think we would all love that. 

In addition to what Kreeshp wrote, Leica needs to generate a little mid cycle excitement and the MP variant is an incredibly easy cheap and profitable way to do so.

[raizans]

It annoys me to no end that they charge $500 more for the classic design and release it a year and a half later. For that much money, the least they could do is give you the best looking design possible.

I'd love it if the M11-P was $9000 and came out first. They can come out with the "budget" model a year and a half later at $8500. Leave the red dot to the "plain Jane" Leica era.

[Kwesi]

Interesting idea but that would devalue the logo by $500. 

[raizans]

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People would rather cover up the red dot with tape, so that makes sense to me! You deserve a discount if you don't mind the red dot.

[Kwesi]

I like your idea though,

Maybe an extra 500 for no logo and Leica script on top with metal finish of your choice right at introduction as an a la carte option that you special order. Then 18 months later they can throw in a few extra features like bigger buffer etc and call that the P version

[Sean ASA]

6 hours ago, Kreeshp said:

Leica engages in a clever strategy of price laddering (see Apple for another company that employs this approach).  By releasing a base model, then 'upgraded' versions slowly over the life cycle of the product, they maximize revenues and profits.

 

It isn't about what's convenient for the customer or what provides the best value for customers.  It's about reaping as much profit as possible with the same platform with small but incremental upgrades.  Some customers will always upgrade to buy the latest or the most premium product and it's those people who I have to thank for supporting the used Leica market. 

As mentioned above a number of people resort to covering over the red dot with tape, which can't be right!. but it's a distraction / safety thing. Initially I nodded when Apple was mentioned but then thought again. When the Apple 7 watch was released, New case design, bigger screen, battery, new health sensor Apple released the Aluminium base, Stainless steel (think of that one as at the MP, sapphire glass etc) and the Titanium Edition model all on day one, and I believe the iPhone 13, 13Pro and 13Pro Max also launched together. (the M1 chip was released in the lower priced Mac Mini first, but that was due to it being Apples first own chip away from recent Intel and as a testing ground). But in general they seem to release together with lower end SE's coming out later. If it works for them and for Porsche (the other German Leica!)  who allow DeBadging! at least plus other options. Then it can be a strategy option. 

[Jeff S]

You can buy new starting with a P version, at least new for you. If you skip each new platform model, and only buy the P versions,  you’ll be on the same 4-5 year cycle as the early platform adopters.  And with the added benefit of avoiding teething issues, FW update needs, etc, typically associated with each new generation.  
 

Depends how you look at it; glass half full or half empty.  
 

Jeff

[Kreeshp]

6 hours ago, Sean ASA said:

As mentioned above a number of people resort to covering over the red dot with tape, which can't be right!. but it's a distraction / safety thing. Initially I nodded when Apple was mentioned but then thought again. When the Apple 7 watch was released, New case design, bigger screen, battery, new health sensor Apple released the Aluminium base, Stainless steel (think of that one as at the MP, sapphire glass etc) and the Titanium Edition model all on day one, and I believe the iPhone 13, 13Pro and 13Pro Max also launched together. (the M1 chip was released in the lower priced Mac Mini first, but that was due to it being Apples first own chip away from recent Intel and as a testing ground). But in general they seem to release together with lower end SE's coming out later. If it works for them and for Porsche (the other German Leica!)  who allow DeBadging! at least plus other options. Then it can be a strategy option.

Without getting into comparing the specific examples of price laddering by Apple versus price laddering by Leica, it's sufficient to say that Leica releases the way they do to maximize profits, not for customer gratification.  Early adopters will buy regardless of whether they like/dis-like the red dot.  Anti-red dotters will wait will that version is released.  People that want the latest version will buy the base model then the next, -P version.  By releasing every version at once, they lose out on the early adopter surge in demand and the revenue from the upgraders.

As far as the Apple comparison, I was thinking more along the lines of the iPad Air versus the iPad Pro lines.  They don't release the newest versions of these iPads together but each newest, staggered iteration makes the competing lines a little bit more similar and you get to choose based on your desired feature set and budget.

Another, less cynical interpretation of the releases not being all at once is that perhaps Leica rushes to release the base models as soon as they physically can and they need time to research the customer feedback and develop the hardware and firmware upgrades in the -P versions.

Like you, though, I am sitting out the M11 and waiting to see what upgrades Leica has for the M11-P.  I'm still 100% content with my M10-P, my first digital Leica acquired a year ago.