Summicron 50 V5 diagnosis

[quietglow]

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I recently received a bargain grade/priced V5 Summicron. It looked to be in such good shape that I thought maybe the seller had made a mistake. After investigating for a few moments, I found the issue. In one place at the edge of the front element, there is a mark that might be fungus. I've seen lenses with fungus before, though, and this looks somewhat different, more an ice-like pattern. It is completely invisible unless you use the flashlight test, and even then you have to hold it just right. In the pic attached it looks much more dramatic than it appears to the eye. 

Anyway, anyone care to diagnose this? In its current state, it would not affect an image, and I am inclined to keep it (it was a good price). 

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[spydrxx]

I doubt it will have any effect on most photos, especially if you use a lens hood. For a good price, I'd keep it, but also keep it away from my other lenses. Perhaps it can be thwarted with a little peroxide.

[quietglow]

5 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

I doubt it will have any effect on most photos, especially if you use a lens hood. For a good price, I'd keep it, but also keep it away from my other lenses. Perhaps it can be thwarted with a little peroxide.

So you think fungus then? Even with a CLA it would still be a bargain. 

I have no idea of the fungus timeline, but I always associate it with older lenses (though I don't see why it couldn't happen to a newer lense). The serial number on this one says it was made in 2015.

[spydrxx]

Yes it seems strange that a newer lens might have fungus. I'm only guessing based on your photo. It could  be other issues just as well. In any case I'd still keep it.

[Jean-Michel]

I of course have no idea of what that is, but, why not try a LensPen on the lens and see if that removes the whatever it is. 

[quietglow]

11 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

I of course have no idea of what that is, but, why not try a LensPen on the lens and see if that removes the whatever it is. 

Whatever it is, it's either behind the front element or actually a mark in the coating. In any case, it does not respond to cleaning.

[giannis]

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It definitely looks like fungus, at its beginning if it's barely visible by naked eye.

It's a very easy job to get rid of, you just open the lens up and wipe with some alcohol.

Worst case scenario would be if it's not the fungus that you're seeing, but the etched glass left by the fungus after a lens with heavy fungus got cleaned.

Edited February 17, 2022 by giannis

[quietglow]

10 hours ago, giannis said:

It definitely looks like fungus, at its beginning if it's barely visible by naked eye.

It's a very easy job to get rid of, you just open the lens up and wipe with some alcohol.

Worst case scenario would be if it's not the fungus that you're seeing, but the etched glass left by the fungus after a lens with heavy fungus got cleaned.

Actually the idea that it might be etched glass almost makes more sense. When viewed straight on, it's completely invisible. It's almost more like its some sort of stain on the coating, because it becomes visible when you get the light in the position so the coatings are very visible, like in the photo.

In any case, as long as it doesn't get any worse, I think I am going to keep it. I have a UV lamp for alt process development, so I'll give it a couple hours of that to kill the fungus if its still active. 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Looks like fungus to me. New lens but still, which always makes me refuse to buy lenses from India, south east asia and such. A misplaced lens will quickly grow fungus in those climates.

If the elements 1 and 2 are glued (what’s the construction of the V5 cron? Anyone has a diagram?)  could well be the start of delamination. Delamination, the cause why I don’t use high quality lenses in the coldest winter months: the warm/cold shock causes this in various forms. Delamination may also look like “easily cleanable fogged elements” but it isn’t: it’s acrually the glue reacting.

 

[quietglow]

22 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Looks like fungus to me. New lens but still, which always makes me refuse to buy lenses from India, south east asia and such. A misplaced lens will quickly grow fungus in those climates.

If the elements 1 and 2 are glued (what’s the construction of the V5 cron? Anyone has a diagram?)  could well be the start of delamination. Delamination, the cause why I don’t use high quality lenses in the coldest winter months: the warm/cold shock causes this in various forms. Delamination may also look like “easily cleanable fogged elements” but it isn’t: it’s acrually the glue reacting.

 

Delamination is the main thing I want to rule out. Here's the diagram according to Mr. Rockwell:

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So looks like there is nothing cemented on the front element, right? Whatever this is, it definitely looks to be either on the front or back of the outermost element. 

 

Btw, thanks much to everyone contributing their thoughts. I really appreciate it.

 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

The good news is that Leica still makes front elements for this lens so for 300-ish you can get it replaced if this one is etched.

 

I’d still carefully wipe the whole lens with teatree oil, including the front element. It is an anti fungus non greasy oil that is effective in killing fungus. It actually cleans lenses to a spark..

Edited February 17, 2022 by Capuccino-Muffin

[quietglow]

16 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The good news is that Leica still makes front elements for this lens so for 300-ish you can get it replaced if this one is etched.

 

I’d still carefully wipe the whole lens with teatree oil, including the front element. It is an anti fungus non greasy oil that is effective in killing fungus. It actually cleans lenses to a spark..

Well that's certainly good news. Even with the cost of a CLA + a new front element, if I ever wanted it, the lens was still a good buy. The best part of that news is that I can just stop worrying about it.

Good to know about the tea tree oil. My house tends to run exceptionally dry (radiated heat etc) and warm during the summer. I've never had an issue with lens fungus before, so I am going to assume I'll continue that streak. 

[quietglow]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:07 PM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The good news is that Leica still makes front elements for this lens so for 300-ish you can get it replaced if this one is etched.

Btw, where did you find that info? I'd like to keep track of it in case I decide to go that route.

 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

32 minutes ago, quietglow said:

Btw, where did you find that info? I'd like to keep track of it in case I decide to go that route.

 

Leica still produces the lens... but please ask them directly just in case.

[overexposed]

i"d go with the scratches theory, when its not visible without light from a certain angle, i have something similar on a fuji lens.

maybe the pre owner used steel wool to clean up nasty dirt

[quietglow]

10 hours ago, overexposed said:

i"d go with the scratches theory, when its not visible without light from a certain angle, i have something similar on a fuji lens.

maybe the pre owner used steel wool to clean up nasty dirt

After a ton of looking at photos etc, I am pretty sure that this lens had fungus that was cleaned. The marks are etching in the coating on the rear of the front element. They're too organically shaped for scratches, and they're on the inside. If you shine a light directly into the lens, in the way you do where you cannot see reflections in the coating, the lens appears completely normal. It's only when you use an oblique light that they show up. And they glint at the same pitch of light at the coatings do.