Viewfinder Framing Errors with M8

[albertknappmd]

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I have always noticed the framing innacuracies inherent in the RF system but I have recently become very frustrated when composing landscapes. Using the 35mm f/1.4 ASPH yesterday, I took a series of forest landscapes and found to my amazement that the VF guidelines were not even near the end of the framed picture. I assume that this was always the case with analogue but that given the absence of immediate verification, we simply could not tell...

Any ideas as to whether my innacuracies are being exacerbated by an inherent error with my m8's VF ? :confused:

[marknorton]

No, it's business as usual. The problem is that the angle of view varies with focussing distance and Leica took the (incorrect in my view) decision to base the frame lines on the closest focus angle of view. The error is particularly acute with the 75's. Basing them on a 1m focussing distance would have lead to a more balanced compromise between closest focus and infinity, such as the landscapes you've just done.

 

You should think of the framelines as more frame-guidelines.

[Guest tummydoc]

If they'd made the framelines accurate for longer distances, there would be threads moaning and crying about cut-off heads and limbs in 1m portraits. Anyone who can't memorise what a lens will capture outside the confines of the frame lines at far distance can always chimp and reshoot, which wasn't possible with the film bodies, or purchase a point-and-push which shows more exact framing at all times.

[hdrmd]

As long as you get a bit more than you framed, what is the problem? Instant replay and cropping wil solve the problem. Now, if you do not get as much as you think you see, then you have a real problem. DR

[sean_reid]

The lines are set for .7 meters except for the 90 lines which are set for 1 meter. The latter hasn't been published by Leica (to my knowledge) but I discovered it in my testing and Leica confirmed it.

 

What's wrong with cropping afterwards?

 

1. One's ideas about the edges can be clearer when the pictures are made than later in Photoshop. If one frames precisely, its good to see that framing even in the first rough edits.

 

2. Cropping throws away resolution.

 

3. Try cropping 1000 files for delivery to a client. One couldn't batch them because the cropping will change by lens and subject distance.

 

I adjust mentally for the 24 - 50 lenses and the 90 is fine. The 75 is still a bear (and I'm shooting with it later today).

 

I'd like to see Leica offer an la carte optional frame line sets optimized for one or two meters focus distance (two options). That's money I'd spend for sure.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Guest tummydoc]

I believe there's a good likelihood the M9, if ever there will be one, will have live-view in addition to the range-viewfinder, as is becoming ubiquitous on new dSLRs. That would be infinitely more logistically feasible than re-designing the entire optical viewing system with some intricate projected frameline apparatus linked to lens coding, and would give a reasonable option to those people who are demanding of view-camera compositional accuracy and/or unwilling to memorise a few framing mnemonics.

[Stan Yoder]

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Saith Vinay Patel:

 

I believe there's a good likelihood the M9, if ever there will be one, will have live-view in addition to the range-viewfinder, as is becoming ubiquitous on new dSLRs.

 

It seems to me that that's going to be difficult with an RF camera with a real shutter, i.e., how is the sensor to get the image before exposure for preview? Olympus has a secondary sensor in the VF path to do it; or, the shutter could be open for preview, then close-open-close for exposure, sorta like the old film Zeiss Ikon Contaflex SLRs and Retina Reflexes, with their inter-lens/behind-lens Compurs. Or, of course, do away with the shutter and electronically gate the sensor for exposure, like the P&Ss.

 

Stan

[thrid]

Something isn't right.

 

Compared to the film M cameras the markings are off by a mile.

 

I'm not sure if it is because of the crop factor or what, but something is rotten in Denmark.

 

Obviously a rangefinder is never going to frame as accurate as an SLR, but we have gone from the markings being reasonably accurate to being borderline useless.

 

In any case, supposedly Leica got an earful about this, from their testers and they are looking into a 'solution'. But as far as I know there is no official word on this issue. Maybe we would get an answer if enough people emailed them about this.