M10-R DNG compression question

[84bravo]

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For the M10-R users here. Does the camera have an option for saving in a compressed RAW format in addition to the full size RAW (dng)? I'm currently using M10 cameras and am considering an upgrade to the M10-R.

I'm a professional photographer and in addition to my M10-P cameras I use the new Canon R5, which has a 40+ MP sensor. The Canon offers a compressed RAW which I find very useful for my workflow. This is especially true for pro sports. I haven't seen an image difference in using compressed RAW as opposed to full size. However, moving those big files on deadline does slow down my workflow. I am satisfied with the 24MP sensor of the M10, but after using the R5 for a while I'm seeing the benefit of more megapixels.

Thanks

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[Photoworks]

there are no options but DNG.

The files are about 40MB each and vary in size what is probably indication of compression.

compressed raw uses more resources in editing software

[cp995]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Al Brown:

Canon used to offer RAW, mRAW and sRAW, which is quite an unique feature...

Not unique, Nikon offers it too!
But without doubt a great feature ...

[adan]

Just to be clear, there is compression (which keeps the full number of pixels and resolution (e.g. 40 million pixels from the M10-R), but stores the data more efficiently and perhaps with slightly different tonal distinctions).

And there is downsampled (S or M) Raw - which reduces the number of pixels (i.e. resolution) by downsampling - and then stores that lower-rez picture in a RAW envelope (i.e. leaving WB, sharpening, etc for the photographer to adjust as desired in post-processing.)

Both will reduce file size - but s/mRAW reduces the actual resolution and number of pixels, while compression does not.

I experimented with Canon's sRAW1 from a 21 Mpixel 5D2 - and got 9 Mpixel .RAW images instead of the whole 21 Mpixels the sensor could provide. SRAW2 delivers 5.2 Mpixel pictures. That is a lot of fine detail thrown away - but it isn't necessarily required for some pictures, so it is a worthwhile option to have available.

Leica has gone back and forth on using compression on their RAW format (Adobe's .DNG file type) over the years. Some cameras always compress the .DNG files (plain vanilla M10), some never do (Monochroms?), and some have allowed a user choice (M8?, M9? - I forget which). In all cases the number of Mpixels stayed the same, with or without compression.

For 84Bravo: The plain M10 compresses (losslessly) all .DNGs, with no user option for uncompressed .DNGs. Not sure about the M10-R and M10-M cameras. I agree with Photoworks that the file size of 40 megabytes (from 40 megapixels - but don't confuse them) implies some compression to all .DNGs already.

......................

It has been suggested (but not by Leica - yet) that the hypothetical M11 will have 1) a 60 Mpixel sensor, with 2) a user option for downsampled .DNGs like s/mRAW (converted to fewer pixels) - i.e. the user will be able to shoot in .DNG but have the option of getting full 60 Mpixel files, or (for example) 24 Mpixel or 15 Mpixel images, as their needs require.

That would actually be a plus for me. I would have been happy to stick with the M9's 18 Mpixels forever (with the other improvements of the M10: ISO, new VF/RF, smaller dimensions). And for journalistic work (as used to be done with Tri-X), even 15 Mpixels would be perfectly acceptable, 90% of the time.

s/mRAW (or s/mDNG) is a good way for little old Leica to simulate Sony's Alpha7, Alpha 7s and Alpha 7r - without having to make three separate cameras with three different sensors.

Landscapers, general shooters and photojournalists can all get what they need out of one body, just by making a selection in the menu.

EDIT - it should be noted that Adobe software (Camera Raw) will recompress .DNG images (since it is their own proprietary format) - if and when a picture is opened for post-processing and then saved. Once.

For example, an M10 image file I have not yet worked on in Adobe Camera Raw may have a file size on disk of 30 megabytes. But once I have made adjustments and saved them, the file size will be, say 24.46 megabytes. After that, it will stay at 24.46 megabytes forever. I have a feeling Adobe removes Leica's own in-camera compression, and substitutes its own thereafter - a minor savings is disk space.

Edited August 26, 2021 by adan

[mmradman]

Camera industry standards for RAW file compression are:-

1 - Uncompressed 

2 - Compressed - Lossless

3 - Compressed - Loosy

As Adan said, Leica was inconstant across the models, I recall M9 and M240/246 having option to select  between 1 & 2 while SL have only option 1.  Can't speak for other models.  In contrast other makers, notably Nikon with which i have some practical experience, was consisted with compression option s over the years.

To best of my knowledge there is no image quality difference between options 1 & 2, option 3 is definitely not the same quality as former, where is Michael Hoofmann to confirm.