S007 and studio light

[GMB]

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Fellow S shooters.

I am shooting with the Leica S007. I want to experiment with studio portrait photography and I am confused what best to get as the main light, which I want to to be able to modify as a soft light as well as a hard light.

I would prefer continuous light over strobes, and within continuous light LED over others. (I looked in detail into the pros and cons of continuous vs. strobes and on the pros and cons of LED vs other types of continuous lights). The main question I have is what LED light or lights to get. In particular, how strong does the light of to be so that I can shoot the S007 at acceptable ISO values, even if I stop down to f5.6 or f.8. My man lenses would be the 100/2 and the 120/2. and, in order to avoid camera shake, I would like to be able to shoot at 1/250. I also wonder whether the light needed may be too strong and unpleasant for the models.

I came across an interesting video of Leica talk with Mark Mann (see here), who shoots the S007 using Rotolights. So that may be an option.

I am also considering getting a ring light (not instead but in addition to a main light).

In any event, all recommendations welcome. Budget is about €2,500 (less if possible).

Thanks in advance.

Georg

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[albireo_double]

Hi Georg, I suggest you look at Dedolight DLED10 plus the Panaura 5 soft box (this octabox can be used via an adapter). The light is very powerful, LED (by far not as hot as HMI), focusable (usable as a fresnel light) and also usable with a dedicated optical projection attachment - i.e. as the hardest light possible, with gobos, apertures etc.. It will be more expensive than your budget, especially once you've included all the accessories. You can see it used as a soft light by Daniel Norton in this video Daniel Norton.  I think he is using another DLED10 as a hard light in the same video, from camera right. If you really are budget constrained, look at the Aputure lights (e.g. 300D Mk II) - with their Light Dome II soft box should also work well for you. Aputure also make a fresnel attachment etc. to fit their lights, so you can use them as both soft or hard lights. If you want to see the Aputure light used as a soft light, take a look at this Youtube video, for example Radical Eye.I have the Rotolight Anova Pro II which Mark Mann uses but it is not really very powerful and you cannot use it as a hard light (or a really soft light - it is something in between, as you can see from Mark's portraits - it is a certain style which you may like or not - and, btw, I think Mark uses like three Annova Pros in each of his portraits, if you look at his BTS videos - this would come way above your budget).  In any case, be aware that (a) the LED continuous lights are not by far as powerful as strobes, especially with larger modifiers (forget f8 at 1/250s at "reasonable ISO"), and (b) especially when used as hard lights, they can be very unpleasant for your model - before I knew better, I once used a Lupo LED 1000 fresnel light on a model, from about 1.5m distance and was lucky that she did not slap me in the face :). In any case...my advice (as someone who has bought and used more lights than reasonable) is to look into the Dedolight system. You are a Leica S user, you have spent big money on your camera and lenses, don't be a cheapskate on your lights. In the long run, the Dedolight system is the best. Another option that I can recommend (and that would be cheaper) are the smaller Dedolights (DLD7 for instance, or the tiny 150W tungsten model) as your hard light, and something like a 30x30 RGB LED panel as your fill / effect light (I have the Aladdin ALL in 1 which is fantastic). Also, don't forget to mix and match - when I shoot with models in hotel rooms, I may take with me a Profoto A1 strobe with a shoot through umbrella or a small soft box, the Aladdin and a Rotolight Neos, for example - these are small lights that fit into a "tourist style" luggage, can be used with relatively light/compact stands (I use the very good small air-damped Broncolor/Visatec stands) and give a lot of flexibility. You can see one of my images shot with this configuration here Buddha Bar hotel. By the way, my favourite light these days is the Broncolor Flooter (used with a strobe), with a ring flash as fill. Very crisp light, popping colours, lots of contrast - like here. On the other hand, don't be afraid to experiment - I recently shot with a 190cm indirect Elinchrom Octabox, using just the modelling light, with a bit of fill from one Lupo LED, with an exposure of 1 second (on a tripod) - one of the resulting images is here. Anyway, Google and YouTube are your friends here - lots of info available online. And don't forget that you don't need to buy everything new - I have built my lighting system partly through eBay purchases, with significant discounts to new (for instance, my slightly beaten-up Flooter cost me about Eur1k). All the best, Martin

Edited February 12, 2021 by albireo_double

[GMB]

Martin vielen Dank.  Great advice.  Georg

[Stuart Richardson]

What is it that you are photographing? Flash tends to be popular as it has a lot of advantages over continuous lighting, especially now in the days of battery flashes. Continuous lighting is taxing on models, hot (even LED can run hot...at least near the light), underpowered in comparison to strobes. It certainly has its place, but flash is pretty useful. At the very least, you will be able to shoot at base ISO and any aperture while stopping motion and having very good color. That is challenging for continuous lighting. Most strobes now come with pretty good LED modeling lights that can be used to set up and visualize the lighting, and since you are shooting digital, you don't need polaroids to see your lighting. I am mostly familiar with profoto, but you could get a decent kit, especially used for that price. I think you could probably rent in Brussels to try it out too. One of the advantages of a company like Profoto is that the gear and modifiers are available to rent in most larger cities, so if you want to get a big, expensive modifier, for a shoot, you can just get it for a day or two. I am not sure if that is as easy for LED.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[Marc Williams]

I'm curious as to why continuous light? How did you come to that conclusion? 

As an advertising art director, I've shot with a number of photographers and some used continuous light (often the aforementioned Dedolights) ... however, they were mostly very controlled table-top studio product shots. 

As a S shooter, I do any supplemental lighting using strobes. Mostly battery driven Profoto units ranging from B2, B1X to A1X ... the advantages are I can shoot anywhere ... beach, abandoned structures, etc. without concern for power source. 

The most important aspect of using strobes with the S is that all but one of my 7 lenses are CS and when using central shutter lenses with Profoto AIR transceivers I can use the full abilities of the lights up to 1/1000 shutter speed ... if you have CS lenses you really should reconsider use of strobes. However, you can also utilize High Speed Sync abilities of modern strobes and shoot with up to 1/4000 albeit at lower power. 

Best of luck!

 

 

[GMB]

Thanks again for the additional input.  I thought LEDs were easier to use than strobes, in particular because no need to sync. Also, I do not have the CS lenses. 
 

However, based on input here and elsewhere, and viewing more BTS videos, I am reconsidering my decision and probably will go for strobes, at least for the main light.  
What transmitter works well with the S007? Any other things I need to consider in regard to the S and strobes?

And since we are at it, what would be good cable for tethered shooting about 5 m long?

[John McMaster]

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1 hour ago, GMB said:

And since we are at it, what would be good cable for tethered shooting about 5 m long?

The Leica Lemo flash cable.....

https://uk.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-S/S-Accessories/Lemo-flash-sync-cable-S

john

 

[albireo_double]

Use the Lemo cable supplied with the camera, as per John's suggestion. I don't think there is anything longer out there, or that Tether Tools make a cable for the S. If you experience drop outs (can happen when tethering from a laptop), you can use a Tether Tools "Tether Boost" or a powered Thunderbolt/USB dock between the laptop and the camera (like this one from OWC). Just stick the USB-A end of the cable into the "High Powered" port on the dock and you should be fine - that's what I use. As you probably know, Capture One now supports the S (I think just S3 and SL2 at the moment, with S007 to come) including for tethering. Lightroom Classic also works, with the now properly functioning Tether Plugin. My preference is Capture One, but I use an S3. 

Any basic (non-brand specific) strobe transmitter works fine with the S. There are no dedicated triggers that would offer HSS or TTL available from any of the third party strobe manufacturers (I think the Priolite for Leica trigger only does HSS with the SL, not the S). Profoto Air Remote (or Air Sync), Broncolor RFS 2.1,  Elinchrom Skyport Plus, etc. would be the triggers to get for strobes from those specific suppliers (I am not so oriented in the nowadays very popular Godox, Flashpoint etc. brands). As for the choice of brand, Profoto has a really wide range, starting from speedlite-type models (A1,A1X) which work quite well with smaller Profoto soft boxes via the recently introduced adapter, there is also the super duper great B10 (really small, compact, good power), the more powerful bigger/heavier B1X model, D1/D2 mono blocs, of course the super expensive Pro-10 plus a bunch of older equipment from eBay. A lot of people have dumped their B2s on eBay, which I don't really understand for this is a great strobe with a really small and light head that can be supported/boomed even on rather light stands, especially when used with the OCF modifiers - I find this a massive plus when shooting without an assistant or when I need to sneak my equipment through a hotel reception. So I would recommend you look at the B2, on eBay. There is every possible modifier available for the Profoto system, from Profoto themselves and from other brands like Westcott or SMDV (this is true for other brands, but pretty much everybody offers an adapter for Profoto). One thing to consider with Profoto's models with recessed strobe (D1, D2, B2, B10, B1X etc) is that they do not fill some modifiers (especially large) as well as strobes with an exposed bulb. Some people say this is not a problem, some disagree. I'd say that if one day you want to use big soft boxes (like 180x120cm) or Broncolor Paras, then a strobe with an exposed bulb would be preferable. If you want to use something like a 100cm octa or umbrellas for your portraits, the Profotos with recessed bulb will do fine (there is a "frosted dome" that can be fitted to some of them, but I find it not really worth the expense). In fact, the light-weight and compact OCF modifiers work really well with something like a B10 or B2.

On the expensive end of the spectrum, Broncolor have the best battery pack (Move 1200) and the most powerful battery monobloc (Siros L 800); these allow the use of my current fave modifier, the Flooter, for instance and are the best choice for location shooting, in my experience. Exposed bulb is the advantage here - combined with the higher power, you can use even the biggest modifiers and/or shoot outside in full sunlight to "overpower the sun", if that's the look you are after.

In any case, I suggest you think about modifiers and supports, and mono bloc vs. pack and head, before you decide about your strobe. The weight adds up quickly and you really need very different stands (and number of sandbags) if you want to boom a B2 with an OCF Octa vs. B1X with a metal beauty dish. Same principle applies to strobes from any other brands, I am just using Profoto and Bron examples here, because I am familiar with those systems. Also think about future expansion - the more expensive models, like the Siros L, may give you more options down the road, but may be an overkill if you are sure you will only ever be an occasional user (that's what I thought, at the beginning...). Last but not least, it should be possible to rent strobes and everything else in Brussels, so you might be fine buying a B10 (for instance) with a corresponding stand and some OCF modifiers and rent the rest if and when you need it for a specific shoot.

As a final remark, I suggest you invest your time (and possibly money, too) in Youtube videos and online courses that teach lighting - people like Daniel Norton, Felix Kunze, Joel Grimes, Jake Hicks, Lindsay Adler, Glenn Norwood etc are a great source of know-how and well worth even their paid courses. Once you've become familiar with the basics, you can study the masters, like Albert Watson, Paolo Roversi and many others - you can find BTS videos on Youtube that will start making sense at some point, even without the "step by step" explanation typically given by the first group of educators mentioned above. Look at images that you like and try to decipher how they were lit - the direction of light, shape and definition of shadow, light fall-off, reflection of the light sources in the subject's eyes. There is a lot of rubbish, poorly and over lit photography out there, so selecting who you are learning from is important. Practice will make you better, so hiring a model and a studio will allow you to make faster progress than working with impatient family members. I work with an assistant who studied photography and works as a product/advertising photographer - I have learned a lot from him too. Perhaps this is way too far now from your original question :). 

Edited February 16, 2021 by albireo_double

[Sarnian]

21 hours ago, John McMaster said:

The Leica Lemo flash cable.....

https://uk.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-S/S-Accessories/Lemo-flash-sync-cable-S

john

 

There's one on eBay at the moment: Lemo-USB3.0 Cable 5m for Leica 16040 S (Typ007) | eBay  eBay item number: 224345268592

[John McMaster]

That's the USB3 tethering one rather than the flash one

john

[albireo_double]

Leica can supply the cable (for Eur 300). Be sure to order the USB3 version (there is also a cheaper version for Leica S-E but that is not USB3). I would probably just buy a new one unless the eBay item looks unused, as any issues in tethering can be very frustrating and hard to pin down (I am speaking as someone who has gone through a few USB cables already, dropped my S007 when I stepped on the cable, had my notebook fall and land on the USB connector etc. etc.).

When I was trading up my S007 they did not want any of the accessories, not even batteries, just the bare body. So I ended up with two of everything, incl. 2 tether cables. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by albireo_double

[GMB]

Thanks everyone for the additional input, and in particular Martin for his long reply. 

I actually did spent a lot of time recently watching all kind of video tutorials. In addition to the names suggested above also Peter Coulson. All very helpful.

I guess I will just get started with one strobe plus a couple of modifiers and see where that gets me. As I am normally traveling half of the year or more in a 4x4 camper, I would like to get something not too big.  The B2s sound interesting.  My idea is to use them for portraits during my travel.