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"The Leica Camera Inc. U.S. Warranty" for M8: ??


rbaron

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Does anyone have a copy of it?

 

Not the card you mail in to Leica Camera, Inc., in Allendale, New Jersey, US, that says 'Leica M8 Two-Year Warranty Application', but an actual (or virtual) document containing the *actual terms of the warranty*?

 

There has been a lot of discussion about the 'Leica U.S. Warranty' as it applies to the M8, but I can't find a copy of it and would like to.

 

Thanks,

 

--Bob

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The terms and conditions of the two year international warranty are set out on the warranty card included with the camera. Additionally, the terms of the Passport, which is provided by the Leica distributor, in my case Leica UK, are set out for the first and all subsequent owners in the passport document after registration with the distributor.

I would expect the terms to be identical in the States.

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Robert:

 

I don't think there is anything specific to the USA. When I asked Leica NJ, they said the M8 had a 2 year warranty, but not the passport warranty. In other words, the standard two year international warranty which just covers defects, not user created problems such as dropping the camera.

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no warranty card is included with the camera, as clearly stated by the OP.

 

I understood that the OP could not find the warranty detail, it was not said that the detail was not included. However, A copy of the International Warranty is shown here.

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I would expect the terms to be identical in the States.

 

I think your expectation would be wrong.

 

Generally speaking, in most of the United States if there is to be a limitation on an implied warranty of fitness of a product for a particular purpose that limitation must be expressed in a writing communicated to the purchaser. The communication is accomplished by giving the writing to the purchaser.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just trying to chase down the terms of the apparently ephemeral limited warranty described by various folks but so far not yet seen.

 

--Lawyer Bob

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Pekem, thanks for posting the copy of the international warranty card.

 

No such card was included with my M8(s).

 

Further, the sticker on the box says "Officially Distributed by Leica Camera Inc." and "Please Be Sure This Package Contains the Leica Camera Inc. U.S. Warranty".

 

I have yet to see "....the Leica Camera Inc. U.S. Warranty" and am wondering if anyone else has.

 

Thanks,

 

--Bob

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My Leica M8 only came with a 2 year warranty registration card. No where does it state any limitations on warranty and now where can any description of the warranty be found. Legally, this leaves them with an unlimited implied warranty of fitness. If for some reason Leica didn't want to honor the warranty it would be a simple matter to take them to small claims court in CA for the full $5K. Since Leica is sold in CA by their authorized dealers they would be subject to jurisdiction in CA and this is probably true in other states as well (small claims limits vary by state). If you purchased from a local dealer you could include the dealer as a defendant. Leica U.S. would be wise to quickly offer all U.S. buyers a passport warranty to limit their liability. Without limitation they could be open to consequential damages such as the costs for studio time, a model, make-up artist, etc. lost due to a camera malfunction.

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My Leica M8 only came with a 2 year warranty registration card. No where does it state any limitations on warranty and now where can any description of the warranty be found. Legally, this leaves them with an unlimited implied warranty of fitness. If for some reason Leica didn't want to honor the warranty it would be a simple matter to take them to small claims court in CA for the full $5K. Since Leica is sold in CA by their authorized dealers they would be subject to jurisdiction in CA and this is probably true in other states as well (small claims limits vary by state). If you purchased from a local dealer you could include the dealer as a defendant. Leica U.S. would be wise to quickly offer all U.S. buyers a passport warranty to limit their liability. Without limitation they could be open to consequential damages such as the costs for studio time, a model, make-up artist, etc. lost due to a camera malfunction.

 

Interesting. I actually had just placed a call to Leica about a similar question. I bought a new coded 50 'cron and in the box is a card to extend the warranty on camera or lens. The card states:

 

Leica Camera is pleased to offer you the opportunity to supplement your three year passport protection with an additional two years of normal warranty coverage.

 

Leica M or R camera two year extention $125

Leica M or R lens two year extention $75

 

So, is it just film M's that have a passport? On lenses why are some 1 year and others passports? Does that depend on whether or not the dealer is getting them from Leica USA?

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Interesting. I looked at the cards that came with a new lens and it had both the card you mention and the warranty card for the lens stated that all Leica M cameras sold in the U.S. had a 3 year passport warranty that one should have received when the camera was registered. I don't think any of us have received such a warranty card.

 

By the way, the limitations on transfer of warranty to a subsequent buyer probably do not apply absent any written warranty.

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What then would the position be if a US national purchased an M8 in London, Solms or Paris? Bearing in mind that the international warranty that is shown above and is included in the packaging states that warranty work can be delivered by any of the Official Leica agents throughout the world including Leica Camera, Inc., in Allendale, New Jersey

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Here is the California Commercial Code on the Express & Implied Warranties. Given Leica's sales literature, and web site it would appear that they are subject to both an unlimited 2 year express warranty and an implied warranty:

 

2313. (1) Express warranties by the seller are created as follows:

 

(a) Any affirmation of fact or promise made by the seller to the

buyer which relates to the goods and becomes part of the basis of the

bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to

the affirmation or promise.

(B) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis

of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall

conform to the description.

© Any sample or model which is made part of the basis of the

bargain creates an express warranty that the whole of the goods shall

conform to the sample or model.

(2) It is not necessary to the creation of an express warranty

that the seller use formal words such as "warrant" or "guarantee" or

that he have a specific intention to make a warranty, but an

affirmation merely of the value of the goods or a statement

purporting to be merely the seller's opinion or commendation of the

goods does not create a warranty.

 

 

 

2314. (1) Unless excluded or modified (Section 2316), a warranty

that the goods shall be merchantable is implied in a contract for

their sale if the seller is a merchant with respect to goods of that

kind. Under this section the serving for value of food or drink to

be consumed either on the premises or elsewhere is a sale.

(2) Goods to be merchantable must be at least such as

(a) Pass without objection in the trade under the contract

description; and

(B) In the case of fungible goods, are of fair average quality

within the description; and

© Are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are

used; and

(d) Run, within the variations permitted by the agreement, of even

kind, quality and quantity within each unit and among all units

involved; and

(e) Are adequately contained, packaged, and labeled as the

agreement may require; and

(f) Conform to the promises or affirmations of fact made on the

container or label if any.

(3) Unless excluded or modified (Section 2316) other implied

warranties may arise from course of dealing or usage of trade.

 

 

 

2315. Where the seller at the time of contracting has reason to

know any particular purpose for which the goods are required and that

the buyer is relying on the seller's skill or judgment to select or

furnish suitable goods, there is unless excluded or modified under

the next section an implied warranty that the goods shall be fit for

such purpose.

 

 

 

2316. (1) Words or conduct relevant to the creation of an express

warranty and words or conduct tending to negate or limit warranty

shall be construed wherever reasonable as consistent with each other;

but subject to the provisions of this division on parol or extrinsic

evidence (Section 2202) negation or limitation is inoperative to the

extent that such construction is unreasonable.

(2) Subject to subdivision (3), to exclude or modify the implied

warranty of merchantability or any part of it the language must

mention merchantability and in case of a writing must be conspicuous,

and to exclude or modify any implied warranty of fitness the

exclusion must be by a writing and conspicuous. Language to exclude

all implied warranties of fitness is sufficient if it states, for

example, that "There are no warranties which extend beyond the

description on the face hereof."

(3) Notwithstanding subdivision (2)

(a) Unless the circumstances indicate otherwise, all implied

warranties are excluded by expressions like "as is," "with all faults"

or other language which in common understanding calls the buyer's

attention to the exclusion of warranties and makes plain that there

is no implied warranty; and

(B) When the buyer before entering into the contract has examined

the goods or the sample or model as fully as he desired or has

refused to examine the goods there is no implied warranty with regard

to defects which an examination ought in the circumstances to have

revealed to him; and

© An implied warranty can also be excluded or modified by course

of dealing or course of performance or usage of trade.

(4) Remedies for breach of warranty can be limited in accordance

with the provisions of this division on liquidation or limitation of

damages and on contractual modification of remedy (Sections 2718 and

2719).

 

 

 

2317. Warranties whether express or implied shall be construed as

consistent with each other and as cumulative, but if such

construction is unreasonable the intention of the parties shall

determine which warranty is dominant. In ascertaining that intention

the following rules apply:

(a) Exact or technical specifications displace an inconsistent

sample or model or general language of description.

(B) A sample from an existing bulk displaces inconsistent general

language of description.

© Express warranties displaced inconsistent implied warranties

other than an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose.

 

Much of this is derived from the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) that is applicable in almost every state in the U.S.

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California goes even further in its Civil code to protect consumers:

 

CALIFORNIA CODES

CIVIL CODE

SECTION 1792-1795.7

 

1792. Unless disclaimed in the manner prescribed by this chapter,

every sale of consumer goods that are sold at retail in this state

shall be accompanied by the manufacturer's and the retail seller's

implied warranty that the goods are merchantable. The retail seller

shall have a right of indemnity against the manufacturer in the

amount of any liability under this section.

 

1792.1. Every sale of consumer goods that are sold at retail in

this state by a manufacturer who has reason to know at the time of

the retail sale that the goods are required for a particular purpose

and that the buyer is relying on the manufacturer's skill or judgment

to select or furnish suitable goods shall be accompanied by such

manufacturer's implied warranty of fitness.

 

 

 

1792.2. (a) Every sale of consumer goods that are sold at retail in

this state by a retailer or distributor who has reason to know at

the time of the retail sale that the goods are required for a

particular purpose, and that the buyer is relying on the retailer's

or distributor's skill or judgment to select or furnish suitable

goods shall be accompanied by such retailer's or distributor's

implied warranty that the goods are fit for that purpose.

...[edited irrelevant material]

 

1792.3. No implied warranty of merchantability and, where

applicable, no implied warranty of fitness shall be waived, except in

the case of a sale of consumer goods on an "as is" or "with all

faults" basis where the provisions of this chapter affecting "as is"

or "with all faults" sales are strictly complied with.

 

1792.4. (a) No sale of goods, governed by the provisions of this

chapter, on an "as is" or "with all faults" basis, shall be effective

to disclaim the implied warranty of merchantability or, where

applicable, the implied warranty of fitness, unless a conspicuous

writing is attached to the goods which clearly informs the buyer,

prior to the sale, in simple and concise language of each of the

following:

(1) The goods are being sold on an "as is" or "with all faults"

basis.

(2) The entire risk as to the quality and performance of the goods

is with the buyer.

(3) Should the goods prove defective following their purchase, the

buyer and not the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer assumes the

entire cost of all necessary servicing or repair.

(B) In the event of sale of consumer goods by means of a mail

order catalog, the catalog offering such goods shall contain the

required writing as to each item so offered in lieu of the

requirement of notification prior to the sale.

 

1792.5. Every sale of goods that are governed by the provisions of

this chapter, on an "as is" or "with all faults" basis, made in

compliance with the provisions of this chapter, shall constitute a

waiver by the buyer of the implied warranty of merchantability and,

where applicable, of the implied warranty of fitness.

 

1793. Except as provided in Section 1793.02, nothing in this

chapter shall affect the right of the manufacturer, distributor, or

retailer to make express warranties with respect to consumer goods.

However, a manufacturer, distributor, or retailer, in transacting a

sale in which express warranties are given, may not limit, modify, or

disclaim the implied warranties guaranteed by this chapter to the

sale of consumer goods.

[skipped section on wheel chairs]

 

1793.03. (a) [deleted as has to do with items under $100]

(B) Every manufacturer making an express warranty with respect to

an electronic or appliance product described in subdivision (h), (i),

(j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and Professions Code,

with a wholesale price to the retailer of one hundred dollars ($100)

or more, shall make available to service and repair facilities

sufficient service literature and functional parts to effect the

repair of a product for at least seven years after the date a product

model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the seven-year

period exceeds the warranty period for the product

 

793.1. (a) (1) Every manufacturer, distributor, or retailer making

express warranties with respect to consumer goods shall fully set

forth those warranties in simple and readily understood language,

which shall clearly identify the party making the express warranties,

and which shall conform to the federal standards for disclosure of

warranty terms and conditions set forth in the federal Magnuson-Moss

Warranty-Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act (15 U.S.C. Sec.

2301 et seq.), and in the regulations of the Federal Trade Commission

adopted pursuant to the provisions of that act. If the

manufacturer, distributor, or retailer provides a warranty or product

registration card or form, or an electronic online warranty or

product registration form, to be completed and returned by the

consumer, the card or form shall contain statements, each displayed

in a clear and conspicuous manner, that do all of the following:

(A) Informs the consumer that the card or form is for product

registration.

(B) Informs the consumer that failure to complete and return the

card or form does not diminish his or her warranty rights.

(2) Every work order or repair invoice for warranty repairs or

service shall clearly and conspicuously incorporate in 10-point

boldface type the following statement either on the face of the work

order or repair invoice, or on the reverse side, or on an attachment

to the work order or repair invoice: "A buyer of this product in

California has the right to have this product serviced or repaired

during the warranty period. The warranty period will be extended for

the number of whole days that the product has been out of the buyer'

s hands for warranty repairs. If a defect exists within the warranty

period, the warranty will not expire until the defect has been

fixed. The warranty period will also be extended if the warranty

repairs have not been performed due to delays caused by circumstances

beyond the control of the buyer, or if the warranty repairs did not

remedy the defect and the buyer notifies the manufacturer or seller

of the failure of the repairs within 60 days after they were

completed. If, after a reasonable number of attempts, the defect has

not been fixed, the buyer may return this product for a replacement

or a refund subject, in either case, to deduction of a reasonable

charge for usage. This time extension does not affect the

protections or remedies the buyer has under other laws."

If the required notice is placed on the reverse side of the work

order or repair invoice, the face of the work order or repair invoice

shall include the following notice in 10-point boldface type:

"Notice to Consumer: Please read important information on back."

A copy of the work order or repair invoice and any attachment

shall be presented to the buyer at the time that warranty service or

repairs are made.

(B) No warranty or product registration card or form, or an

electronic online warranty or product registration form, may be

labeled as a warranty registration or a warranty confirmation.

© The requirements imposed by this section on the distribution

of any warranty or product registration card or form, or an

electronic online warranty or product registration form, shall become

effective on January 1, 2004.

(d) This section does not apply to any warranty or product

registration card or form that was printed prior to January 1, 2004,

and was shipped or included with a product that was placed in the

stream of commerce prior to January 1, 2004.

(e) Every manufacturer, distributor, or retailer making express

warranties and who elects to maintain service and repair facilities

within this state pursuant to this chapter shall perform one or more

of the following:

(1) At the time of sale, provide the buyer with the name and

address of each service and repair facility within this state.

(2) At the time of the sale, provide the buyer with the name and

address and telephone number of a service and repair facility central

directory within this state, or the toll-free telephone number of a

service and repair facility central directory outside this state. It

shall be the duty of the central directory to provide, upon inquiry,

the name and address of the authorized service and repair facility

nearest the buyer.

(3) Maintain at the premises of retail sellers of the warrantor's

consumer goods a current listing of the warrantor's authorized

service and repair facilities, or retail sellers to whom the consumer

goods are to be returned for service and repair, whichever is

applicable, within this state. It shall be the duty of every retail

seller provided with that listing to provide, on inquiry, the name,

address, and telephone number of the nearest authorized service and

repair facility, or the retail seller to whom the consumer goods are

to be returned for service and repair, whichever is applicable. [emphasis added]

 

Notice the language having to do with warranty periods and registration cards or web sites. Until Leica fixes all of the defects we have identified, here in California, the warranty period hasn't started, i.e. the warranty period is extended until defects identified during the warranty period are fixed or while the item is being repaired under warranty.

 

I will notify Leica in writing of the defects I have seen on my camera in order to legally have a basis for maintaining an extension of the warranty. Ny the way, manufacturers rarely want to go to Small Claims Court as they routinely lose and it generally costs them more to appear than to just find a way to settle. However, you can not seek consequential damages in Small Claims Court.

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What then would the position be if a US national purchased an M8 in London, Solms or Paris? Bearing in mind that the international warranty that is shown above and is included in the packaging states that warranty work can be delivered by any of the Official Leica agents throughout the world including Leica Camera, Inc., in Allendale, New Jersey

 

I think under these circumstances the M8 could be submitted for repair to either New Jersey or to Solms.

 

I also think - as a practical matter - at the present time, if there are to be substantial repairs done to an M8 it must go to Solms. If Leica decides to replace it (as they have done in a number of cases) that of course could be done by the local Leica agency, such as New Jersey.

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By the way, the limitations on transfer of warranty to a subsequent buyer probably do not apply absent any written warranty.

 

Interesting if true, and a major reason for my inquiry at the beginning of this thread.

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Below is U.S. Code covering warranties in the U.S. and as can be seen the warranty transfers during the warranty period (I will highlight in Bold). Manufacturers often put language in warranties and contracts that they know are not enforceable on the (valid) assumption that they won't be challenged.

 

United States Code

TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE

CHAPTER 50 - CONSUMER PRODUCT WARRANTIES

U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04

Section 2301. Definitions

 

For the purposes of this chapter:

(1) The term "consumer product" means any tangible personal

property which is distributed in commerce and which is normally

used for personal, family, or household purposes (including any

such property intended to be attached to or installed in any real

property without regard to whether it is so attached or

installed).

(2) The term "Commission" means the Federal Trade Commission.

(3) The term "consumer" means a buyer (other than for purposes

of resale) of any consumer product, any person to whom such

product is transferred during the duration of an implied or

written warranty (or service contract) applicable to the product,

and any other person who is entitled by the terms of such

warranty (or service contract) or under applicable State law to

enforce against the warrantor (or service contractor) the

obligations of the warranty (or service contract).

(4) The term "supplier" means any person engaged in the

business of making a consumer product directly or indirectly

available to consumers.

(5) The term "warrantor" means any supplier or other person who

gives or offers to give a written warranty or who is or may be

obligated under an implied warranty.

(6) The term "written warranty" means -

(A) any written affirmation of fact or written promise made

in connection with the sale of a consumer product by a supplier

to a buyer which relates to the nature of the material or

workmanship and affirms or promises that such material or

workmanship is defect free or will meet a specified level of

performance over a specified period of time, or

(B) any undertaking in writing in connection with the sale by

a supplier of a consumer product to refund, repair, replace, or

take other remedial action with respect to such product in the

event that such product fails to meet the specifications set

forth in the undertaking, which written affirmation, promise, or undertaking becomes part of the basis of the bargain between a supplier and a buyer for

purposes other than resale of such product.

(7) The term "implied warranty" means an implied warranty

arising under State law (as modified by sections 2308 and 2304(a)

of this title) in connection with the sale by a supplier of a

consumer product.

(8) The term "service contract" means a contract in writing to

perform, over a fixed period of time or for a specified duration,

services relating to the maintenance or repair (or both) of a

consumer product.

(9) The term "reasonable and necessary maintenance" consists of

those operations (A) which the consumer reasonably can be

expected to perform or have performed and (B) which are necessary

to keep any consumer product performing its intended function and

operating at a reasonable level of performance.

(10) The term "remedy" means whichever of the following actions

the warrantor elects:

(A) repair,

(B) replacement, or

© refund;

 

except that the warrantor may not elect refund unless (i) the

warrantor is unable to provide replacement and repair is not

commercially practicable or cannot be timely made, or (ii) the

consumer is willing to accept such refund.

(11) The term "replacement" means furnishing a new consumer

product which is identical or reasonably equivalent to the

warranted consumer product.

(12) The term "refund" means refunding the actual purchase

price (less reasonable depreciation based on actual use where

permitted by rules of the Commission).

(13) The term "distributed in commerce" means sold in commerce,

introduced or delivered for introduction into commerce, or held

for sale or distribution after introduction into commerce.

(14) The term "commerce" means trade, traffic, commerce, or

transportation -

(A) between a place in a State and any place outside thereof,

or

(B) which affects trade, traffic, commerce, or transportation

described in subparagraph (A).

 

(15) The term "State" means a State, the District of Columbia,

the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, the

Canal Zone, or American Samoa. The term "State law" includes a

law of the United States applicable only to the District of

Columbia or only to a territory or possession of the United

States; and the term "Federal law" excludes any State law.

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Federal Law (U.S. Code Continued...

Section 2302. Rules governing contents of warranties

 

(a) Full and conspicuous disclosure of terms and conditions;

additional requirements for contents

In order to improve the adequacy of information available to

consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the

marketing of consumer products, any warrantor warranting a consumer

product to a consumer by means of a written warranty shall, to the

extent required by rules of the Commission, fully and conspicuously

disclose in simple and readily understood language the terms and

conditions of such warranty. Such rules may require inclusion in

the written warranty of any of the following items among others:

(1) The clear identification of the names and addresses of the

warrantors.

(2) The identity of the party or parties to whom the warranty

is extended.

(3) The products or parts covered.

(4) A statement of what the warrantor will do in the event of a

defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written

warranty - at whose expense - and for what period of time.

(5) A statement of what the consumer must do and expenses he

must bear.

(6) Exceptions and exclusions from the terms of the warranty.

(7) The step-by-step procedure which the consumer should take

in order to obtain performance of any obligation under the

warranty, including the identification of any person or class of

persons authorized to perform the obligations set forth in the

warranty.

(8) Information respecting the availability of any informal

dispute settlement procedure offered by the warrantor and a

recital, where the warranty so provides, that the purchaser may

be required to resort to such procedure before pursuing any legal

remedies in the courts.

(9) A brief, general description of the legal remedies

available to the consumer.

(10) The time at which the warrantor will perform any

obligations under the warranty.

(11) The period of time within which, after notice of a defect,

malfunction, or failure to conform with the warranty, the

warrantor will perform any obligations under the warranty.

(12) The characteristics or properties of the products, or

parts thereof, that are not covered by the warranty.

(13) The elements of the warranty in words or phrases which

would not mislead a reasonable, average consumer as to the nature

or scope of the warranty.

(B) Availability of terms to consumer; manner and form for

presentation and display of information; duration; extension of

period for written warranty or service contract

(1)(A) The Commission shall prescribe rules requiring that the

terms of any written warranty on a consumer product be made

available to the consumer (or prospective consumer) prior to the

sale of the product to him.

(B) The Commission may prescribe rules for determining the manner

and form in which information with respect to any written warranty

of a consumer product shall be clearly and conspicuously presented

or displayed so as not to mislead the reasonable, average consumer,

when such information is contained in advertising, labeling,

point-of-sale material, or other representations in writing.

(2) Nothing in this chapter (other than paragraph (3) of this

subsection) shall be deemed to authorize the Commission to

prescribe the duration of written warranties given or to require

that a consumer product or any of its components be warranted.

(3) The Commission may prescribe rules for extending the period

of time a written warranty or service contract is in effect to

correspond with any period of time in excess of a reasonable period

(not less than 10 days) during which the consumer is deprived of

the use of such consumer product by reason of failure of the

product to conform with the written warranty or by reason of the

failure of the warrantor (or service contractor) to carry out such

warranty (or service contract) within the period specified in the

warranty (or service contract).

© Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty;

waiver by Commission

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or

implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in

connection with such product, any article or service (other than

article or service provided without charge under the terms of the

warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name;

except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the

Commission if -

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted

product will function properly only if the article or service so

identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public

interest.

 

The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit

public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition

of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its

disposition of any such application, including the reasons

therefor.

(d) Incorporation by reference of detailed substantive warranty

provisions

The Commission may by rule devise detailed substantive warranty

provisions which warrantors may incorporate by reference in their

warranties.

(e) Applicability to consumer products costing more than $5

The provisions of this section apply only to warranties which

pertain to consumer products actually costing the consumer more

than $5.

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Finally, of note, Leica's failure to provide a written limited warranty implies a full warranty. Leica might be able to overcome this by contract with each owner (i.e. a new contract to be agreed upon by each owner in which the owner would accept a more limited warranty in exchange for something Leica might offer but without such a contract Leica is probably on the hook in the U.S.).

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