Mono viewfinder in colour or B&W

[wooferdog]

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I would be interested in hearing from long time Black & White shooters about the choice we now have with viewfinder difference with the M10 M and Q2 Mono .... Look through one and you see the world in colour , the other in black and white.

Does the Q2M make it easier or is it a little like an auto V’s manual  car .... I hope I’m expressing this correctly. Perhaps it’s not a “big deal” I haven’t seen any review see comment on this difference.

 

 

[Keith (M)]

The M10M offers the best of both worlds - view the world normally through the rangefinder or use LV (better still with Visoflex) and see a monochromatic world.  Don't ever recall seeing the world in b&w when shooting b&w film though!  

[mmradman]

8 hours ago, Keith (M) said:

The M10M offers the best of both worlds - view the world normally through the rangefinder or use LV (better still with Visoflex) and see a monochromatic world.  Don't ever recall seeing the world in b&w when shooting b&w film though!  

Not only M10M, it is correct for any film or digital camera with optical viewfinder.

Being able to visualise final image as mono doesn’t require for it to be seen as such, this worked for decades. Q2M is perhaps first camera with B&W viewfinder.  Although at times I use EVF2 with M246 which is obviously mono only, lack of colour viewfinder doesn't appeal to me.

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, mmradman said:

Q2M is perhaps first camera with B&W viewfinder.  

The SL2 VF can be set to view in b/w via jpeg monochrome setting, while still shooting DNG only.

Jeff

[NigelG]

Q2M has a colour evf viewfinder (check the specs) it just receives sensor information in mono.

[NigelG]

What I’m not sure about is if the viewfinder shows the selected jpeg toning effect (Selenium/Blue/Sepia) if that has been turned on (the horror!). Maybe also for video?

[mmradman]

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9 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The SL2 VF can be set to view in b/w via jpeg monochrome setting, while still shooting DNG only.

Jeff

Agree, any modern colour camera can be set to produce JPG in B&W and still shoot in RAW in colour, JPG setting will provide mono display in the EVF/Rearscreen.

Now, what SL2 has to do with this, it is about Mono camera and mono EVF.  We all know you have SL2 and make prints as you keep reminding us in almost evert post, maybe you ought to add it to your signature.

I thought this thread was about mono cameras and Mono EVFs.

Edited November 18, 2020 by mmradman

[Jeff S]

43 minutes ago, mmradman said:

Agree, any modern colour camera can be set to produce JPG in B&W and still shoot in RAW in colour, JPG setting will provide mono display in the EVF/Rearscreen.

 

But the SL2 is not outputting JPEG and DNG; just DNG. The only change is the b/w display/EVF.  I haven’t been able to do this with my other current or prior color digital cameras. I’m sure you know what they all are.

Jeff

[mmradman]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

But the SL2 is not outputting JPEG and DNG; just DNG. The only change is the b/w display/EVF.  I haven’t been able to do this with my other current or prior color digital cameras. I’m sure you know what they all are.

Jeff

More power to SL2. Still irrelevant in Mono thread as camera being discussed are Mono.

Where mono and colour cameras of the same type coexist from  M9/M9M to Q2/Q2M all main physical components are shared except the sensor CFA (colour filter array aka Bayer layer).  With mono cameras regardless what EVF can do (excludes M9) it displays input signal that is derived from Mono sensor output, if signal suddenly becomes colourful something is probably broken or malfunctioning.

[Jeff S]

As we all know.  I only added a tidbit most don’t know. The thread also relates to unique abilities to show b/w in the VF, and the SL2 has an unusual ability for a traditional digital camera. A b/w enthusiast might care.  Most threads have sidebar discussions and friendly banter. You’re not the forum police, but you’re welcome to debate me, report my post to the mods, ignore my post, or put me on your ignore list. 
 

Jeff

[wooferdog]

Hello all , perhaps I wasn’t clear with my original question.

Looking through he Mono viewfinder or the colour viewfinder ... my question related to the human brain. (Not the actual viewfinder)

Is it “better / easier / a short cut” to see the world in  Mono rather than colour (then have to imagine it as Mono)

Thanks

 

 

 

[mmradman]

33 minutes ago, wooferdog said:

Hello all , perhaps I wasn’t clear with my original question.

Looking through he Mono viewfinder or the colour viewfinder ... my question related to the human brain. (Not the actual viewfinder)

Is it “better / easier / a short cut” to see the world in  Mono rather than colour (then have to imagine it as Mono)

Thanks

 

 

 

See post #3.

To rephrase key point, before we had digital we took pictures with film cameras, we always observed scene in colour through various optical viewfinders regardless of film type in the camera. Mono visualisation happens in brain, at least it does in mine.

[Ken Abrahams]

When I purchased the Visolflex for the M10M the guys at the store joked about colour vision through this added EVF unit. I was aghast at the prospect until I fitted the device and saw pure monochrome in the viewfinder. Up until now my brain needed to visualize the end result of the monochromatic image when using color viewfinders. Now I don't need to. This comes as a great relief to me.   

[Bikie John]

Ansel Adams suggested using what he called a "viewing filter" to help visualise how your subject would render in B&W. I think this was a brown/olive sort of shade. A search for B&W should turn up plenty of links.

John

[strohscw]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Bikie John:

Ansel Adams suggested using what he called a "viewing filter" to help visualise how your subject would render in B&W. I think this was a brown/olive sort of shade. A search for B&W should turn up plenty of links.

John

Yes, it was sold by Zone VI, they sold a lot cool stuff for b&w photography, also cameras (4x5 and 8x10), modified exposure meters for b&w and cold light enlargers.

[BrianS]

4 hours ago, Bikie John said:

Ansel Adams suggested using what he called a "viewing filter" to help visualise how your subject would render in B&W. I think this was a brown/olive sort of shade. A search for B&W should turn up plenty of links.

John

I remember watching Movies "about movies being made", where the director looked at a scene through his director's viewfinder and this type of filter. The reason given was to view the scene as it would look on the B&W film.

[wizard]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb mmradman:

To rephrase key point, before we had digital we took pictures with film cameras, we always observed scene in colour through various optical viewfinders regardless of film type in the camera.

That does not answer wooferdog's question, does it? We now have the possibility to observe a scene in B&W, and his question was whether that possibility makes it easier to compose a B&W picture. In my view it certainly does.

[Rob L]

Yes it does! But is it cheating?

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, strohscw said:

Yes, it was sold by Zone VI, they sold a lot cool stuff for b&w photography, also cameras (4x5 and 8x10), modified exposure meters for b&w and cold light enlargers.

I sold all my darkroom stuff, but kept my modified spot meter and viewing filter, although they’ve remained in the closet since.  The benefit of the viewing filter wasn’t just for composition, but to see the effects of tonal rendering and separation.

Jeff

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[mmradman]

24 minutes ago, wizard said:

That does not answer wooferdog's question, does it? We now have the possibility to observe a scene in B&W, and his question was whether that possibility makes it easier to compose a B&W picture. In my view it certainly does.

I can't disagree, a specific tool can help in a specific task. my original answer was that it was not necessary.  Generations of photographers throughout the history of photography observed in colour and produced picture in B&W. 

I started to shoot with optical VF and B&W Film and later B&W sensor, I visualize in my head or just shoot and review on screen before posting or printing. 

Film Directors and Ansel Adams are minority  principal users of "director finders" to help pre-visualize final scene in B&W,  however things have changed.  With Q2M and B&W EVF every user can now use tools similar to Ansel Adams or John Ford, I was tempted to write become one.