glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello everyone, This is a first post for me here as I am a recent convert to leica M8. Coming from the Canon camp I have long realised the benefits of shooting prime lenses and have been using interesting combos, for example a Zeiss 21 distagon on a 1DSM2 (very nice). Here is the thing though. I have an option to purchase a very good condition 28 cron f2 but I can not try it out before buying. I also have an option to buy the WATE at a reasonable price. The problem is that I can only buy one of these lenses right now and i'm finding it hard to make a decision. Is the WATE really as good as I have read? I'm really craving for a good second lens as my 50 cron f/2 is too limited on the M8 and need somthing wider. I love the very few sample images I have seen from the 28 cron but can not seem to find many samples from the WATE. Have any users out there got both of these lenses? I would be very grateful if you could post some comparison images showing the WATE at 21 v's the 28 cron. Alternatively can anyone point me to any links with comparisons between primes and the WATE? Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Hi glassimage, Take a look here Primes or WATE?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jackal Posted August 12, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 12, 2007 28 cron over a wate wate is like a bowl of mushy peas in comparison or why not get a zeiss 25mm, a cv 15mm and a 28mm ultron and save some money ! my zeiss is way way sharper than the WATE and the ultron isnt very far behind the summicron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mondello Posted August 12, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 12, 2007 Given that the WATE is going up by something like 1/3rd I'd grab it now since you are likely not to lose any money on it. The US price at B&H had been $3800+/- with the finder and is now at $4800! Jono Slack has some comparisons between the CV 15 and the WATE and Sean Reid's subscription site has an in-depth comparative review (well worth the small fee) http://www.reidreviews.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwfreund Posted August 12, 2007 Share #4 Posted August 12, 2007 Get a decent prime(s) and donate the difference to Oxfam or whoever can do more with your money than Leica.. No lens is worth that much unless you have a military-style budget. In that case "worth" has no meaning at all. -bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 12, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 12, 2007 I have both lenses and not giving either one up for anything but if a WATE is available at a good price than i would jump on it, there hard to get and the price is going up. The WATE is as good or better than anything in it's class. I would get John's adapter for the IR filter with it though. Now having said that my favorite lens is the 28 cron and i will never sell it but it is easier to get than the WATE at this time and also cheaper. If it was me i would get the WATE as long as the price is not over the top. I look at it as 3 lenses which it really is even though in use maybe two. Couple shots with the WATE Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/30924-primes-or-wate/?do=findComment&comment=327939'>More sharing options...
j. borger Posted August 12, 2007 Share #6 Posted August 12, 2007 I do not even consider the wate for one simple reason: ... it's way too large .............. and things get worse if you count that ugly 16-18-21 finder in! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 12, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I rate both lenses very highly and if you have the opportunity to get a WATE before the price goes up, that would be my recommendation. Later, you can add a 28/2 and a 75/2 and you will be all set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted August 12, 2007 Thanks for posting. I have looked in to non leica lenses, but I do not know too much about them. Is there issues with using these on an m8 due to lack of coding? Is there a way of coding the non leica glass? I have to say that I was originally drawn to the m8 due to leica's reputation for making great lenses. I love the so called "Leica Look". Can you really get comparible IQ from these other lenses? Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 12, 2007 Share #9 Posted August 12, 2007 I do not even consider the wate for one simple reason: ... it's way too large .............. and things get worse if you count that ugly 16-18-21 finder in! It's just a touch bigger than a 50 lux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted August 12, 2007 I have both lenses and not giving either one up for anything but if a WATE is available at a good price than i would jump on it, there hard to get and the price is going up. The WATE is as good or better than anything in it's class. I would get John's adapter for the IR filter with it though. Now having said that my favorite lens is the 28 cron and i will never sell it but it is easier to get than the WATE at this time and also cheaper. If it was me i would get the WATE as long as the price is not over the top. I look at it as 3 lenses which it really is even though in use maybe two.Couple shots with the WATE Thanks for posting Guy. Your shots look very good. By any chance, do you have any comparison shots of the same subject shot with the wate and the 28 cron? I would be very interested in seeing side by side comparisons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted August 12, 2007 I rate both lenses very highly and if you have the opportunity to get a WATE before the price goes up, that would be my recommendation. Later, you can add a 28/2 and a 75/2 and you will be all set. Thanks Mark, This certainly sounds like good advise. Every time I decide to buy the wate I keepo seeing these stunning 28 cron shots at f2 with lovely bokeh AHHHH This is hard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted August 12, 2007 Share #12 Posted August 12, 2007 Thanks for posting. I have looked in to non leica lenses, but I do not know too much about them. Is there issues with using these on an m8 due to lack of coding? Is there a way of coding the non leica glass? I have to say that I was originally drawn to the m8 due to leica's reputation for making great lenses. I love the so called "Leica Look". Can you really get comparible IQ from these other lenses? Thanks John Coding issues? Yes - but an easy solution exists with hand coding or use of custom adapters from John Milich here on LUF. Comparable IQ? Yes. Some would argue that the IQ of Zeiss vs Leica is 'superior' but it depends on the 'look' you're after really, plus ultimately it's very subjective. The WATE is a very versatile lens, especially if you need the 18 & 21mm focal lengths in addition to a true wide 15/16mm. The Voigtlander 15mm with appropriate Milich ring and UV/IR filter adapter (or mounted 39mm Leica UV/IR) is an excellent wide angle with the M8 for a fraction of the cost of the WATE. The 28 Summicron is my most used walk about lens and to call it sharp is a huge under-statement. It is simply outstanding optically IMHO. I have both the 28/2 and WATE, plus Zeiss 21/2.8 (great lens!), CV15 & CV12. If I were budget constrained and starting again looking for a companion to a 50/2 then I'd have to be drawn to the 28/2 plus a CV15 to begin with. From a long term financial perspective, if the deal on the WATE is very good, then perhaps it would make sense to get that now since 28 'crons aren't hard to find and haven't attained nose bleed pricing yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted August 12, 2007 Share #13 Posted August 12, 2007 What type of comparison shots are you looking for? Wide open 28/2 vs WATE/4 or shots at the same aperture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted August 12, 2007 Coding issues? Yes - but an easy solution exists with hand coding or use of custom adapters from John Milich here on LUF. Comparable IQ? Yes. Some would argue that the IQ of Zeiss vs Leica is 'superior' but it depends on the 'look' you're after really, plus ultimately it's very subjective. The WATE is a very versatile lens, especially if you need the 18 & 21mm focal lengths in addition to a true wide 15/16mm. The Voigtlander 15mm with appropriate Milich ring and UV/IR filter adapter (or mounted 39mm Leica UV/IR) is an excellent wide angle with the M8 for a fraction of the cost of the WATE. The 28 Summicron is my most used walk about lens and to call it sharp is a huge under-statement. It is simply outstanding optically IMHO. I have both the 28/2 and WATE, plus Zeiss 21/2.8 (great lens!), CV15 & CV12. If I were budget constrained and starting again looking for a companion to a 50/2 then I'd have to be drawn to the 28/2 plus a CV15 to begin with. From a long term financial perspective, if the deal on the WATE is very good, then perhaps it would make sense to get that now since 28 'crons aren't hard to find and haven't attained nose bleed pricing yet. Thanks for the reply. That's just the kind of information I was looking for. Do you have a link to information on the milich adaptors? Does he have a website? Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted August 12, 2007 What type of comparison shots are you looking for? Wide open 28/2 vs WATE/4 or shots at the same aperture? To be fair to both lenses and in the interest of making a fair comparison, i'd like to see some images with both lenses stopped down to best aperture. I've seen some wide open shots from the cron and they really impressed me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassimage Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted August 12, 2007 It's just a touch bigger than a 50 lux. Can it be used at any of the f/l witrh the build in viewfinder on the m8 or does is block the frame? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted August 12, 2007 Share #17 Posted August 12, 2007 You can do a search here and you'll find lots of threads covering the adapters that John manufactures. You can reach him via email at jm at milich dot com and he'll send you a doc with the custom services he performs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 13, 2007 Share #18 Posted August 13, 2007 John sorry i ran out to catch a flight to Kansas for a shoot, so i am away from my files until Tuesday but you can look here and download a image you think maybe the 28mm than open in PS and get info the Exif data will have it there on lenses shot except my 75 lux which is not coded Zenfolio | Guy Mancuso Photography | Leica/Porsche Germany Trip 7/07 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted August 13, 2007 Share #19 Posted August 13, 2007 Hi John, The WATE and the 28mm are very different lenses ie 16mm (with 18 and 21 thrown in) and 28mm. I have a WATE and a 28mm elmarit. The FOV of the latter makes it more of an everyday lens. The WATE is spectacular and I have no problems with its sharpness although I have not 'pixel peeped' it. The WATE price is going up stubstantially. If you put off the purchase until after the price increase you won't be happy. As others have said, if you have not already, subscribe to Sean Reid's site, that will help you make your decision. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 13, 2007 Share #20 Posted August 13, 2007 Only in Leicaland would a 16-21 F4 zoom cost $5k. Unless the objective is to simply collect lenses, I'm not sure I understand the point of comparing the WATE to the 28 'cron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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