Central Shutter failures

[hoppyman]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

.Has anyone else experienced issues with S lenses that have the Central Shutter?

my 70 is my most used lens and I love the results but it’s now back in Wetzlar for the third time. After the AF motor defect was fixed for free the Central Shutter failed some months later and I was told the expected repair warranty from that did not cover the CS. Now almost a year later that CS has failed again. Waiting for response on what required and that the warranty from last repair covers it. With long transit times it failed a couple of weeks short of when I last got it back.

Certainly I have shot more with this one ( on S cameras) than any other lens on the other systems. However my camera required an expensive repair when I sent it only for a CF card latch fail too. My experience calls into question how robust and reliable the system has been, for me.

Edited May 22, 2019 by hoppyman
Additional detail

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[sincurves]

I had no shutter failures on my three CS lenses (AF replaced on all), but they were used mostly with FS. 

[John McMaster]

Do you mostly use CS or FP in the studio?  I have one CS lens, but it is rarely used with CS....

john

[albireo_double]

Four of my seven S lenses are CS designation. I have had four AF motor failures but no CS failure so far.

[peterv]

I've had no shutter failures on my two CS lenses, but they've been used mostly with FPS

Edited May 22, 2019 by peterv
typo

[hoppyman]

Thanks for comments thus far. My 70CS is used in studio and I have always used CS for flash sync 1/180th. The same sync speed as with my SL. I tend to shoot rapid sequences, capturing moments in movement with dancers for example.in a half day I might shoot hundreds of exposures. Perhaps that’s more than average?

Of course I think this design should be robust enough, to work like that. As the Shutter was replaced last time I know that I made about 10 000 exposures with that lens in the 49 weeks since I got it back again.

it will be interesting to see if anyone else in the S user community here reports a failure. I don’t want to be the solo test to destruction guy! As it is I have been without this one for about 8 months in total so far (and a couple of months without my Typ 007). I have always had excellent support from Leica Camera Australia to keep me functional at least.

i shall report here what Wetzlar has to say when I hear.

[peterv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

From what I read on the internets 10K actuations could just be a normal number for a leaf shutter to need service.

Edited May 23, 2019 by peterv

[TMKM]

Both my 30-90mm and 70mm CS, the AF died.

This is the second time it failed me. Both LENS AF had been send to LEICA Germany for AF repair in 2016.

[hoppyman]

On 5/23/2019 at 7:50 AM, peterv said:

From what I read on the internets 10K actuations could just be a normal number for a leaf shutter to need service.

I don’t know what the designs MTBF is, but I would be surprised if that is so for their premium professional range. I recall initially that Leica Camera had to replace the initial design, which caused delays in the availability of CS lenses. From new the lens had several times that number of actuations before the first CS fail, resulting in a complete Shutter replacement.

My two reported fails statistically mean nothing of course. No other reports here so far. There must be S systems in professional hands that use their cameras and lenses much harder than I do though

[sincurves]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:49 PM, hoppyman said:

There must be S systems in professional hands that use their cameras and lenses much harder than I do though

 I doubt it. I suspect most MFD studio shooters use systems like PhaseOne or Hasselblad (shutters on H lenses supposedly last >100k actuations).

[hoppyman]

I have no idea on who might use other systems or failure rates for shutters in those.. I’m in the right place to talk with fellow S system users I think though. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by hoppyman

[Stuart Richardson]

This is the first I have heard of a CS shutter failure, but the CS line is a smaller subset of a small community. Still, I think if it were a common issue, I think we would have heard more about it by now. My guess is that you have been unlucky. I hope that the replacement you get lasts much longer! 

[albireo_double]

On 5/23/2019 at 3:17 PM, hoppyman said:

My 70CS is used in studio and I have always used CS for flash sync 1/180th. The same sync speed as with my SL. I tend to shoot rapid sequences, capturing moments in movement with dancers for example.in a half day I might shoot hundreds of exposures.

I am wondering why, in this situation, you just don't use the focal shutter at its max sync speed of 1/125s and either close your aperture half a stop, or close the curtain in your studio a bit more. Neither 1/125s nor 1/180s are short enough to freeze a dancer's movement - your strobe does that, whereas your shutter only cuts off the ambient in your (presumably darkened) studio. Of course, I agree with you that the lens shutter should be good for more than ten thousand actuations, but if you've repeatedly found that it is not, then perhaps reserving its use for when you need to mix strobe with ambient would keep your lens healthy for longer.

Edited May 26, 2019 by albireo_double

[hoppyman]

Yes that can work. It’s long habit to use the Central Shutter. However of course I think that the second CS failure at least should not have happened. It’s interesting that no other user here has thus far reported this particular fault. So perhaps very unlucky. It is also possible that the way I shoot with multiple shots in rapid series stresses the equipment more than with other users. The actuation count up to the first CS failure was several times higher. Three failures with this lens ( including the AF defect first) meant at least six months without it so far.

Shall see what Customer Service have to say. I am very supportive of my Leica equipment and the brand, while I also think I should be sharing my personal experiences when things go wrong.

[peterv]

Haha, YES, I’m happy because I can finally be of some help to you hoppyman (and anyone coming here through an internet search in the future) Ever since you started this thread, I had the idea somewhere in the back of my mind that the answer was right under my nose, is if I read it somewhere.

Well, here it is:

If you haven’t already, download the S Magazine app and go to issue number 1 - 2012. 

There is a very elaborate article there about the S central shutter design and it literally says: 

“ ... This shutter is designed for more than 100.000 cycles at speeds up to 1/1000 of a second ... “

There is lots more interesting background info there and I do advise everyone to make a few screenshots of this article just in case of future warranty trouble.

Hope this helps, cheers, Peter

OT: There’s also a great article in this issue about photographer Jonathan Mannion. That article made me decide to finally buy an S camera.

[hoppyman]

Aah thanks Peter and I have that copy of LFI at home. I am travelling currently. That must have been where my memory on the replacement of the initial design came from. In any event so far it appears that my two fails are isolated incidents. At least no other reports unlike with the AF defect. Still waiting to hear anything from Wetzlar via Leica Camera Australia who sent my lens about 3 weeks ago.

[hoppyman]

My lens has returned after guarantee repair (from previous shutter replacement). The Central Shutter was replaced again.  As I didn’t see a single other report anywhere of a failure like this, I have to conclude that the way I have used the lens stresses the design more than usual. Typically in a half day working with a dancer I might shoot 1000+ images , often in rapid sequences. I plan to avoid using the Central Shutter that way now, when I am in studio in any case. I think my shot count with the lens is about 70 000 now.

Inevitably turnarounds are longer than I would prefer as I am so far from Wetzlar, typically 8 weeks including shipment with Leica in Australia and Customs in both countries. That means about six months without the lens up until now ( and two months without the camera for separate repair). I must be the unofficial test to destruction guy.

i have had superb support from Leica here in Australia though and never without functioning system.

Edited June 25, 2019 by hoppyman
Typo