jonoslack Posted July 21, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) HI There I picked up one of these lenses (around 1990, but mint condition) in the spring, it seemed very soft on the M8, but I sent it off to Leica for coding anyway. They said it needed a complete overhall, and did quite a lot of work on it. It came back a while ago, and after a false start with a B&W 60mm filter, I've now got a leica filter, and it's wonderful - sharp to the corners from f4, but not brutal - it's turning to love! However - It has the normal 60mm cap, and the Leica 12543 lens hood - but you can't fit the cap without taking off the hood - is there a slip on cap to go on the hood? I rang classic camera, and they said 'there never was one'. Any ideas anyone? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Hi jonoslack, Take a look here 21mm pre-asph E60 on the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest tummydoc Posted July 21, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 21, 2007 There are two hood designs with that lens. The original design is a press-fit-stud which was replaced by a pressbutton spring-claw design (one of the rare instances of Leica advancing to a more elegant but costly design). The latter may have its hood reversed over the lens for storage, far enough that the E60 pressbutton lenscap may be fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 22, 2007 Share #3 Posted July 22, 2007 Jono-- Same problem here, but my version of the lens takes hood 12537 (stud lens Vinay described). From his description, maybe your version will work better than mine. Two possible solutions were recommended to me when I asked about getting a hood cap for the just-discontinued Tri-Elmar. I haven't looked into them deeply, but here they are: Hood Hat | Demo Page Lens Caps Custom Made on CNC Lathe Good luck! --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 22, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 22, 2007 Jono--Same problem here, but my version of the lens takes hood 12537 (stud lens Vinay described). From his description, maybe your version will work better than mine. ------------HC Jono, that lens has seen three different hoods. The first mount (very early 1980's) was straight-sided and took 49mm filters. Hood was 12537. This was soon changed – vignetting? – to a mount for 60mm filters. Both hoods, that for the chromed bayonet pins and the later one for the clip-on studs, seem to have had the same code number, 12543. How Leica kept them apart during the period of changeover I don't know. But the lens is lovely, albeit a bit clumsy for what is actually the equivalent of a 28mm on the full frame. Mine is expected back from Solms, newly coded, during the next week. The old man from the Age of Walter Mandler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted July 22, 2007 There are two hood designs with that lens. The original design is a press-fit-stud which was replaced by a pressbutton spring-claw design (one of the rare instances of Leica advancing to a more elegant but costly design). The latter may have its hood reversed over the lens for storage, far enough that the E60 pressbutton lenscap may be fitted. HI Vinay Many thanks for this - I have the second design, and, fool that I am, I hadn't realised that it reverses on the lens - I would rather have a slip on cap like most of the later lenses, but this is better than nothing at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted July 22, 2007 Jono, that lens has seen three different hoods. The first mount (very early 1980's) was straight-sided and took 49mm filters. Hood was 12537. This was soon changed – vignetting? – to a mount for 60mm filters. Both hoods, that for the chromed bayonet pins and the later one for the clip-on studs, seem to have had the same code number, 12543. How Leica kept them apart during the period of changeover I don't know. But the lens is lovely, albeit a bit clumsy for what is actually the equivalent of a 28mm on the full frame. Mine is expected back from Solms, newly coded, during the next week. The old man from the Age of Walter Mandler Thank you Lars - Mine seems to be the one with the bayonet pins. I know what you mean about it being clumsy - but mine works so nicely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 22, 2007 Share #7 Posted July 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting how a lens in mint condition, implying minimal use, can require so much work. What did they do to it, Jono? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted July 22, 2007 Interesting how a lens in mint condition, implying minimal use, can require so much work. What did they do to it, Jono? Hi Mark - well, it's 17 years old, and maybe their QC wasn't so great then either: Adjust Focus Adjust all Fnctions Adjust Parallel Guide Check all functions Convert to 6 bit modification - that's what they said. I was irritated, but it's certainly made a huge difference to the lens, which I'll be keeping now, it has that lovely soft/sharp look that some of the pre Asph lenses seem to have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted July 22, 2007 Share #9 Posted July 22, 2007 I bought my pre-asph 21mm Elmarit new when the current one was announced (twelve years ago?) and my local Leica dealer wanted to clear his shelves of old stock. I also obtained the Leica lens hood but have never seen any lens cover when the hood in on the lens. For this reason, I now rarely use the lens hood. Hey, we don't see the sun very much anyway where we live so I have yet to see any flare in images shot with this 21mm lens. Now that I finally received my "free" E60 UV/IR filter from Solms, I'm using the 21mm quite a bit. (I had previously sent it to Leica to be encoded.) I'm glad I kept the lens. The beautiful Zeiss 25/28 viewfinder works just fine with this 21mm lens on the M8. My only quibble with Zeiss is their thoughtless failure to provide any sort of case with any of their viewfinders. -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 23, 2007 Share #10 Posted July 23, 2007 Jono, that lens has seen three different hoods. The first mount (very early 1980's) was straight-sided and took 49mm filters. Hood was 12537.... Lars-- I wouldn't have double-checked your post except that I've got the lens. I can post pictures (shot 10 minutes ago), though I don't think it's necessary. E60, stud, 12537. Not E49. I'm not saying there wasn't an E49 version, but Puts (Leica-M lenses) doesn't list it, so it must have been a small production. I also tend to doubt that Leitz used the same catalog number for two different simultaneous items; if so, it may have been the 12537. I know with your collection you've probably got samples to illustrate what you say; so with my addition we may have uncovered another oddity in the oddities of Leitz! --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 23, 2007 Share #11 Posted July 23, 2007 Lars--I wouldn't have double-checked your post except that I've got the lens. I can post pictures (shot 10 minutes ago), though I don't think it's necessary. E60, stud, 12537. Not E49. I'm not saying there wasn't an E49 version, but Puts (Leica-M lenses) doesn't list it, so it must have been a small production. I also tend to doubt that Leitz used the same catalog number for two different simultaneous items; if so, it may have been the 12537. ----------- --HC Well, the numbers on my lenshood (clip-on for lens with studs) say what they say. And Mr. Puts says (Leica Taschenbuch, 7. Auflage, p. 94): "Filter-Fassungsart/-Durchmesser: E49 später (1985) E60." I haven't seen the 49mm version in the body, but Dennis Laney (Leica Collector's Guide, 2 ed., p. 207) illustrates both the 49mm version and the 60mm one with the chromed pins for the bayonet hood. Secondary sources, I know, but they do agree ... The old man from the Age of Standard Lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 23, 2007 Share #12 Posted July 23, 2007 1. The hood for this 21 is so vestigial that it really does pratically nothing except perhaps keep fingerprints off the lens. This was the first M lens I bought, and I've never used the shade. 2. The E49 version of the lens appears in brochures from the time, but my understanding is that Leica photographed the prototype, and by the time production began the barrel had been changed to E60 size. I have never seen, or encountered anyone who has seen, an actual E49 21mm outside the factory. 3. Yes Jono, this is the lens that sold me on Leica M glass. UV-proof (the only lens I ever had that produces blue-gray clouds with Velvia, rather than magenta, even without a UV filter), and with a nice mix of resolution combined with gentle contrast - long. l-o-o-ng highlight range. The corners are pretty soft on 24x36 down to f/8 or so - but on the M8 that doesn't matter. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29438-21mm-pre-asph-e60-on-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=311735'>More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted July 23, 2007 1. The hood for this 21 is so vestigial that it really does pratically nothing except perhaps keep fingerprints off the lens. This was the first M lens I bought, and I've never used the shade. 2. The E49 version of the lens appears in brochures from the time, but my understanding is that Leica photographed the prototype, and by the time production began the barrel had been changed to E60 size. I have never seen, or encountered anyone who has seen, an actual E49 21mm outside the factory. 3. Yes Jono, this is the lens that sold me on Leica M glass. UV-proof (the only lens I ever had that produces blue-gray clouds with Velvia, rather than magenta, even without a UV filter), and with a nice mix of resolution combined with gentle contrast - long. l-o-o-ng highlight range. The corners are pretty soft on 24x36 down to f/8 or so - but on the M8 that doesn't matter. Hi Andy Lovely photo - I'm beginning to come around to your way of thinking (i.e. don't bother with the lens hood), especially now it has an IR/cut filter to protect the front element (which did seem a bit vulnerable before. I read Erwin Puts rather damning report - but of course the crop factor has increased the benefits of a few older models which were a bit soft at the corners, mine seems pretty good down to f4, and at f8 (which is what I use for most landscape and travel stuff) it's splendid. thanks for posting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 23, 2007 Share #14 Posted July 23, 2007 Hi Andy- - - - - - - - - I read Erwin Puts rather damning report - but of course the crop factor has increased the benefits of a few older models which were a bit soft at the corners, mine seems pretty good down to f4, and at f8 (which is what I use for most landscape and travel stuff) it's splendid. thanks for posting I agree, the lens is very good on the M8. And it was no slouch on my M4-P either! I think Mr Puts is sometimes ultra-critical. I know extremely few M lenses that I wouldn't use on any model camera, and some of these are not usable on the M8 in any case! The old man from the Age of the Angulons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted July 23, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 23, 2007 Since my 28elmarit was my favourite lens on the M6 I immediately went out and tried to find a 21 when I got my M8, and I got this same E60 21 elmarit, with the pins, I also got the hood which I agree is probably not doing 'nuthin on there. Found it to be pretty soft at 2.8 but great at f4 and above, same characteristics as the 28 elmarit (III), sharp but smooth- My quandary is now the 28 used to be the "bodycap" lens on the M6, I just got a 25zeiss, and have not taken the 21 out for quite a while. I am kind of afraid to sell the 21 (and the 28) since they seldom see use, thinking I will miss that characteristic smoothness. Anyone out there with some experience on the zeiss 25 vs. elmarit 21? Of course all of this is brought on by the crop factor and viewfinder change, I admit, it has been difficult to settle on new standards. I got the zeiss 28 finder for the 21, which is great, but it is a PITA using it for photographing people, fine for architecture and landscape. this is why I got the zeiss 25, the widest you can go on the M8 viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted July 23, 2007 Share #16 Posted July 23, 2007 Anyone out there with some experience on the zeiss 25 vs. elmarit 21? Bought a new Zeiss 25mm Biogon and loved it but there were too many problems with it to properly encode it for the M8 and bring up the proper M8 viewfinder frame. So I sold it and am now happy with my 21mm Elmarit and 28mm CV. -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 23, 2007 Share #17 Posted July 23, 2007 Well, the numbers on my lenshood (clip-on for lens with studs) say what they say. Thanks, Lars. I take it that means you have a stud-type hood 12543 to fit the E60 lens? How does the 12543 compare to the 12537 pictured here? (You can see from the shadows that there are viewing cutouts on the near side as well.) Text on the unseen side of the hood reads "LEITZ CANADA," and (hopefully legible here) on this side, "12537 M2.8/21." --HC Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29438-21mm-pre-asph-e60-on-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=312210'>More sharing options...
dseelig Posted July 23, 2007 Share #18 Posted July 23, 2007 I had a 21 preashercial I did not like the width of the 21 I have a zeiss 21 and a zeiss 25. I got a zeiss 35 mount for the 25 from zeiss and got the 25 mount the one it came with for the 21 off the 25 and got Milch to code them both had don goldberg take the mounts off and on and I now have two nice wides to use and both coded. If I could ever afford the wate I would sell the zeiss 21 but I want the 50 aspherical next . David I like the 25 zeiss because it is the widest thing you can put on a m8 and hides less viewfinder info then the 24 leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share #19 Posted July 23, 2007 Thanks, Lars. I take it that means you have a stud-type hood 12543 to fit the E60 lens? How does the 12543 compare to the 12537 pictured here? (You can see from the shadows that there are viewing cutouts on the near side as well.) Text on the unseen side of the hood reads "LEITZ CANADA," and (hopefully legible here) on this side, "12537 M2.8/21." --HC Hi There This says 'LEICA GBMH GERMANY' on one side, and the '12543 M2.8/21' on the other. It works fine, but the little metal spikes are almost certain to scratch the lens barrell (it seems to me).Otherwise the hoods look pretty much the same. Despite the hood, my lens was made in Canada. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 23, 2007 Share #20 Posted July 23, 2007 Hi ThereThis says 'LEICA GBMH GERMANY' on one side, and the '12543 M2.8/21' on the other. It works fine, but the little metal spikes are almost certain to scratch the lens barrell (it seems to me).Otherwise the hoods look pretty much the same. Despite the hood, my lens was made in Canada. Jono--Thanks! They do look virtually identical. How interesting that the hood and lens would come from different sources! Maybe Germany had experience with the clamp design? Or maybe a first step toward moving production to Germany? Doesn't seem all that logical: Did Germany ship hoods to Canada for all their production? Did Germany ship hoods to Canada only for their Americas distribution? (If I recall correctly, when I was with the company, Midland's products were shipped to US for our distribution without going first to Germany.) The more we know, the less we know! --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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