Jump to content

C1 and Lightroom BIG question !


valtof

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've been using C1 to manage my DNG files since I got my M8 at the end of january.

At the begining with Jamie's profile and more and more without, as all my 5 lenses are all coded and IR filtered.

I've been quite satisfied with C1 until I tested Lightroom this WE. I must admit C1 looks like a prehistoric software in comparison, but :

 

- I noticed that the DNG file doesn't look the same when just imported with no correction (not the same "as shot" color balance) ;

- C1 seems to have better control over noise reduction and sharpening (you can completely remove any noise reduction and get the max sharpening, which is not totally the case with LR).

 

I wonder if I can consider one is better than the other as regard to this basic aspect ?

Do I have to consider I miss something with camera calibration, is ACR3.6 the correct profile, etc... ?

 

Moreover, I also wonder how can we handle archiving all the work you do in Lightroom (as well as with C1 in fact), let me explain better :

When you manage your files : you import, classify, develop, pick and flag, crop, etc... without changing anything to the original DNG files that these softwares are pointing to.

But what will happen once you'll want to backup part of your DNG with the corresponding Lightroom data ? And does it make sense ?

 

Any help would be welcome.

Cheers

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest sirvine

Christophe:

 

1) Not sure why you say that you cannot remove NR in Lightroom. It is possible to do this. As for sharpening, are you using the latest version of Lightroom?

 

2) If you are concerned about losing your edits, you can batch backup to TIFF output. This way you are "destructively" applying your edits in a way that won't be lost if the LR library settings become corrupt for some reason. Does it make sense?

Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt that C1 is better than Lr in terms of noise reduction and sharpening, although the recent Lr update has improved it vastly. I think you need both in the bag for some images. I do most of my work now in Lr (used to be Aperture) but I do keep C1 around "just to see" what things look like. Often times it is not that much better to bother.

 

As far as having a workflow that allows maximum flexibility I have made my library all referenced images in folders on my harddrive. That way, I can always us C1 to open a folder to process individual images if I need to. I can then also put the processed tiffs alongside the dngs and import them into Lr to keep track. since there are only a few times I need to do this it is not much of a problem.

 

I use Superduper to clone the entire archive drive to another drive.

 

The library data and metadata is on my boot drive which has its own backup. I don't know if they need to be separate but that is just what occurred when I set it up. Perhaps the Lr library needs to be on the photo drive also.

 

You can choose to export what are now called 'catalogs' which is like what Aperture calls 'projects', essentially all the dngs and image metadata into one folder if you want to archive a job for example separate from the rest of the library, perhaps to free up space. you can also choose to export the metadata for a set of images which actually writes the changes into the dng in the metadata so other programs like bridge can use them. If you have canon raws for example it will write sidecars, xmp's. You can turn this on by default in the prefs but this is not recommended as it slows performance.

 

for now, archiving the raws and the Lr database is what I have. Aperture has a slightly more slick version with their Vaults idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Christophe:

 

1) Not sure why you say that you cannot remove NR in Lightroom. It is possible to do this. As for sharpening, are you using the latest version of Lightroom?

 

2) If you are concerned about losing your edits, you can batch backup to TIFF output. This way you are "destructively" applying your edits in a way that won't be lost if the LR library settings become corrupt for some reason. Does it make sense?

 

Sol, thanks for caring :

 

1/ What I meant is that the conjunction of removing noise and max sharpening don't lead to the same sharpness in Lightroom compared to what you can achieve in C1, which I find better.

See in the two examples attached, at 2500 iso (theatre) and 160 iso (Skyline).

You'll also notice that these examples imported as is in both LR and C1 have not the same white balance and basic contrast/luminosity, which is not a main issue but a bit disturbing as to which of the two software as to be considered as "true".

I'm testing Lightroom 1.0, by the way. Is 1.1 has big improvments ?

 

2/ This makes sense of course. But I imagined that kinf of software could have the ability to keep the library settings in a file/database for each folder where you import your DNG. This way you could backup both the picture and its corresponding editing data. But may be this doesn't make sens...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lr 1.1 is a lot better than 1.0 at sharpening and noise reduction. You could use Lr 1.1 to apply a similar amount of sharpening to the example you have posted from C1. (why is another story)

 

Maybe I was not clear about the archive function-in Lr 1.1 (new) you can save (apple-s) the metadata to the dng, essentially you are writing the changes to the dng. when you archive the dngs however you do, you are saving the adjustments as well all in one. alternatively you can export a catalog which is a group of images plus metadata. Lr has improved in this respect.

 

Once the metadata is saved, other raw converters like bridge/Ps will see your changes when you open the images. You would need CS3 to see all the parameters, as some of the raw capabilities are new, the aforementioned sharpening and Nr facilities would require CS3.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest sirvine

Yes, Robert is correct. Also, make sure you remove Lightroom's default settings for contrast and brightness, which are +25 or something. If you put the contrast and brightness settings to zero, I think you will see an improvement. I use a preset to establish a neutral (all sliders at zero) setting, and I apply this preset to all images when they are imported.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Yes, Robert is correct. Also, make sure you remove Lightroom's default settings for contrast and brightness, which are +25 or something. If you put the contrast and brightness settings to zero, I think you will see an improvement. I use a preset to establish a neutral (all sliders at zero) setting, and I apply this preset to all images when they are imported.

 

Thank you Sol and Robert,

 

Things are clearer to me after your explanations.

 

1/ Indeed, using a preset to import pictures in a more "neutral" state is a good solution.

2/ What is still strange to me and that you didn't mention is why C1 and LR don't "read" the same "as shot" white balance !

3/ I will go ahead with the 1.1 version but how will it handle with all the work already done in v1.0 ?

 

Cheers

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Sol and Robert,

 

Things are clearer to me after your explanations.

 

1/ Indeed, using a preset to import pictures in a more "neutral" state is a good solution.

2/ What is still strange to me and that you didn't mention is why C1 and LR don't "read" the same "as shot" white balance !

3/ I will go ahead with the 1.1 version but how will it handle with all the work already done in v1.0 ?

 

Cheers

 

1.1 honours all of the setting of 1.0. you should absolutely upgrade, just back up first!!

 

I have no idea why C1 and Lr open with different wb's, but since the raw processing engine is different, that is only the start of the differences anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Christophe -

 

In addition to all the good suggestions already mentioned, let me add a couple relating to your questions about archiving:

 

First, you can tell LR to automatically write any setting changes to the XMP metadata in the DNG files as you go. In v1.1, it's under the Metadata tab in the Catalog Settings menu item. By doing this, all LR settings stay with the files, and are not only located in the LR database file. Also, set your preferences to backup the database file and check the catalog's integrity every time you start LR.

 

Second, you should ALWAYS have your drives backed up, preferably redundantly (two backups of each drive.) That way, in a worst-case scenario you have recovery options. It's basic geek best-practice, but it's surprising how many folks don't have good backups.

 

If you ever lose a drive, you'll know why this is such a mantra! The saying is: "There are two kinds of people who lose computer data: those who have, and those who will... "

 

T

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...