Bob Ross Posted July 14, 2007 Share #21 Posted July 14, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Guy, Yes, particularily when I am doing people or still life stuff. Landscapes get the smaller apertured. With an SLR/DSLR we have auto diaphrams and don't always check DOF and the lenses tend to have sweet spots around f/5.6. Now, the DSLR exception is where I am using old manual focus & aperture lenses where stopping down is a pain. Those I tend to shoot wide open or one stop down, unless it is macro. It has been fascinating to rediscover that wide apertured give so much DOF at normal distances. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 Hi Bob Ross, Take a look here M8 shooters more wide open than Pre M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
waterlenz Posted July 14, 2007 Share #22 Posted July 14, 2007 I know this has never been asked before and was thinking about my Canon days reading the 5D thread. I have noticed since even leaving the DMR that i am shooting more wide open or very close to it. It's rare I go to F8 anymore. Now are others sensing this same thing from other systems that the M8 we are leaning more towards the wide side. Now some will say you went from FF to a crop . Okay that i somewhat understand but i came from 2 years with the same crop factor of the DMR and i have been shooting more wide open. Stuff i shot at F8 seems to have moved up wider and we have more DR in the M8 so we can even shoot at the higher ISO's to gain smaller F stops but i don't think we are doing that. Reading the board as we do it seems like a lot of folks are more interested or are shooting more wide open. Thoughts on this, Why? Before the M8, the M6 with Noct at f/1 was my 'go to' set up with ISO 400 film for the short winter days up here in the frozen north. With the M8 one can switch ISO much more readily, so more likely will shoot 1.4 , 2 or 2.8 (24mm). Shot the 35 at 1.4 and 24 at 2.8 quite a bit shortly after getting the M8 (winter) but really need a full season to be more conclusive. Wide open but shorter FL. The nights are getting longer now, up to 5 hours!! We shall see in Nov and Dec! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted July 14, 2007 Share #23 Posted July 14, 2007 bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh those sample on the forrum of BOKEH and TECH TOY BOYS small talkers are sample of fine leica lenses wide open photography ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ooooooooooooooooooooooopppppppppppppppppssssssssssssssss i can open the lens............... oooooooooooooooooooooopss i have bokeh................................... oppppppppppppppppppppppppppppssssssssssssssssssssss i will post it on the wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww so that evry body will seeeeeee the great leica photograph ........................ if you want to photograph with wide open u have to develop not only BOKEH TALKS.... but mainly..... sensitivity......... aesthetic sensitivity......... cause aesthetic requirments in composition and subject exposition is very defferent when you start to open the aperture widely......... but who talks about that.................. BOKEH TECH TOY BOYS............... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 14, 2007 Share #24 Posted July 14, 2007 Guess you found out what "Control + V" does Victor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted July 14, 2007 Share #25 Posted July 14, 2007 "command+v" what "control+v" does.. tried it does nothing )) but this is how all the tech-toy-boys talks look like........ repeated slogans..... BOKEH x1000000000000000000000000000 without a single picture that uses the bokeh for some visual statement for emotional impact.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 14, 2007 Share #26 Posted July 14, 2007 Highlight some text press 'Control + C' and then press 'Control + V' a couple of times in a text box. Even better, the next time you're going to post a patronising message try highlighting the text and then pressing 'Control + X'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 14, 2007 Share #27 Posted July 14, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Highlight some text press 'Control + C' and then press 'Control + V' a couple of times in a text box. Even better, the next time you're going to post a patronising message try highlighting the text and then pressing 'Control + X'. I think Vic's underlying point is fair - perhaps he could be more diplomatic in the way he writes it? Incidentally, isn't it command-c and command-v to copy and paste? It's always been that way on the Mac - is it different on a PC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 14, 2007 Share #28 Posted July 14, 2007 Honestly it really was not a question about bokeh. It was more about being more wide open or close to it with the M8. Not stopping down as much as before was really the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted July 14, 2007 Share #29 Posted July 14, 2007 guy.. i know to read and understand what is written....... ok...... so....... with the new technique......... where is the rrefind attitude to photo-making ?????????????????? i will repeat it again... now that the great tech-toy-boy make a new degeneratography with new gdgets and lenses ....... where is the new and refined attitude to the way they see the foto, to the way they approach it technically and artistically ....... ???????????????????????????????????????? photographing at f1.4-f2.8 as normal (something that i do alot myself) is totally different than fotographing at f4-f11 as normal......... it needs complitly different attitude, state of mind, visual sensitivity, understanding etc etc.............. where are those ????????????????????????????? the same old bulshit pics but now with more bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh bokeh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted July 14, 2007 Share #30 Posted July 14, 2007 iain hi...... i simply have enough of this diplomacy with www degeneratography makers and tech toy small talks........ just having fun............... ) especially when only answers i get back is the same old mantra........ no argumentations at allllll.......... the same repeated mantra again and again........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 14, 2007 Share #31 Posted July 14, 2007 I think what we are saying is the camera's are more usable towards the wider side than they were before and whatever you do artistically is obviously up to you . For example i have shot with strobes all my career but the power that i need in the older days is not anything near what i need today. I have bought lights with less power and actually reduce the output because i can trust these lense better to perform better than I could in the past with other makers. So i find that i can be wider and also push the ISO's higher . This has more to do with quality of file that they are getting better with higher ISO's less light and more wide open apertures. What someone does with that is up to them but it does open the creative side also to try other things. We can sit and talk artistic approach until the cows come home but if we can't achieve something from the technical side than we can't apply it on the creative side. It all is connected and given the lense can perform better gives us more options for better files ,bokeh , shorter DOF and artistic approaches that we maybe not been able to do as easy as before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted July 14, 2007 Share #32 Posted July 14, 2007 I don't shoot wide open any more with my M8 than I did with my M6/M7 - except to the degree that the much faster shutter speeds available allow me to stick with a preferred near-wide-open aperture when my film bodies would have driven me to start stopping down in order to maintain exposure. My M8 style remains essentially what it has always been with my Leica equipment - a bias for near-wide-open shooting, stopping down as desired to add depth of field. For street shooting, I'll still often use f8 and hyperfocal distance. I hardly ever shoot beyond f8. DSLR shooting with my Nikons is a bit different. Even though the aesthetic bias is still the same - narrow depth of field being usually desired - the optical quality imposes some constraints. With the exception of my Nikkor 85 f1.4, a piece of glass which is nearly in the same league as Leica stuff, everything else (their pro-grade 2.8 zooms, primarily) gets stopped down at least a stop. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted July 14, 2007 Share #33 Posted July 14, 2007 Guy: I think I agree with Steve Unsworth. My aperture selection didn't change with the M8 versus the film Ms. I tend to shoot with the lenses wide open or only stopped down a couple stops. I don't think I ever go past f5.6 unless there is a need to get the shutter speed down in daylight to sync fill flash. On the R to DMR switch, I kept my old habits too. Near wide open for people shots and stopped down to f8 for scenic shots on a tripod. It may be that the M8 is the first chance people have had to shoot with lenses that perform exceptionally well even wide open. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted July 14, 2007 Share #34 Posted July 14, 2007 agree with you at some degree about tech capabilities that allow artistic possibilities guy .. u say "than before.... " ??????? of course the summilux 50asph is the best lens in my view at least..... and it is wide open and it is great, and it can be always great technically..... obviously, others may disagree with me saying that noctilux is much better in its "look" or the amazingly beautiful old summilux is better etc etc but tell me .. this wide open capabilites are new and sudden to leica photography ??????? when from comes the noctilux ????? when from was made the old summilux ??????????? oh dear........ when from was made the breathtaking summilux 75 ????????????????????????????????????? is it sudden in terms of the techincal and artistic option .............. or maybe it is sudden cause we have some new gadgets to talk about ??????????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted July 14, 2007 Share #35 Posted July 14, 2007 ah guy........ diffently agree with you about storbes....... u know..... leave for a moment the leica with its super open apertures...... put a large format cameraa........ when i started to get into phjotography i was told that large format is made at about f22 aperture opening as normal for optimal quality....... hahahhahahahha.............. po-symmar-L .......... ya sure..... f11 is the optimum when you work with displacemts...... honsestly... if no displacment and handheld - f5.6 is great as well ))))) needless to make comments about leica of course...... personally .. i coudl never notice the effect of degradation of "difractioon" - simply dont remember when i made pic below f8 ) f4 is close enough - now turn the knob and downrate your generator - agree with u ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 14, 2007 Share #36 Posted July 14, 2007 No more from my Canon and Nikon days were i could not trust the lenses as well as the Leica's . let's face the facts there is not a canon lens that is wide that will do great corner to corner work without being at F8 period. I tried everything but the Leica lenses have much more going for them and you can get great corners and can still be wider opened. I don't think any real radical changes in the Leica shooter , although there ASPH glass is a better performer technically and the M8 does give you the chance to shoot at higher ISO's BTW the 50 lux is a beauty i agree. Actually mine is getting shimmed right now in NJ And yes we do have new gadgets to talk about which is fun to do but we need to make images too no doubt. I just think leica overall gives a better shot at being more wide open, given there technical acheivements in glass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 14, 2007 Share #37 Posted July 14, 2007 Your right 4x5 was at F22 and don't shoot any wider we were told , they lied. LOL F11 was really nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted July 14, 2007 Share #38 Posted July 14, 2007 One other reason could be a reaction against the "everything is in focus" point and shoot cameras. With the manual control of focus, one getst to play with what is out of focus, and choose. That choice (for me) is kind of at the heart of the M8, and the Leica way. Its nice to have it back. Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted July 14, 2007 Share #39 Posted July 14, 2007 For landscapes stuffs that requires foreground and background to be sharp, I still use f/11 or smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted July 14, 2007 Share #40 Posted July 14, 2007 -- but if we can't achieve something from the technical side than we can't apply it on the creative side. It all is connected and given the lense can perform better gives us more options for better files ,bokeh , shorter DOF and artistic approaches that we maybe not been able to do as easy as before To me, although really bokeh can be related to some objective technical criteria (such as the diafragm form/nr of blades; maybe a purposely designed shift of focus, certain aspects of softness, maybe even colour rendition) , at the end the choice of the designers was to go for a style, I think. Probably also related to the films thate were around. Apart from that lens quality thing, now we get competing technology (the "focus button" on C1, for instance) where the software starts to sharpen the images, in fact reducing genuine OOF in order to give the picture a sense of DOF. Actually, the sheer sharpness of some pictures (such as WA cityscapes) is frightening to me. The suggestion then is that photographers now push the diaphragm more open just to compensate for that inherent digital sharpening or feel comfortable doing that. Maybe related is that some people on the Forum promote setting the sharpening standard to 'off' - because the digital sharpening really can take away any inherent lens quality - like that magic Japanese word 'bokeh'... I haven't by far figured it out yet, though. For me a reason of a large diafragm is also that I can now see the result, so be more bold, take 5 shots at ease, pick the best, throw away the off-focus ones but sometimes I really like them even. And yes I agree with Geoff that this approach sets us off - from the point & click all ways in focus bland picture makers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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