Pinhole-like marks in fiber prints

[logan2z]

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I've been noticing some small pinhole-like marks in the surface of fiber prints I've been making.  This seems to have something to do with flattening the prints in a dry mount press as I don't see the marks before I put them in the press.  I assumed this may have been due to small bits of dirt on the surface of the print or on the surface of the mat board in which the print is sandwiched while flattening, and it leaving an impression in the print.  But I've been careful to clean off both the print and the mat board before flattening and I'm still seeing these marks.  Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

 

I'm using Ilford MG IV fiber and I'm putting the prints in the press for about 2 min at 200 degrees Fahrenheit.  

[Jeff S]

Best to use release paper for protection.

 

Jeff

[logan2z]

Best to use release paper for protection.

 

Jeff

 

Thanks for the response Jeff.  I don't know much about the uses of release paper, why it would work better for protecting the print?

[Jeff S]

Dry mount tissue and release paper are made for use with dry mounting prints. I never had issues with marks. But frankly I got rid of my dry mount press and prefer to mat prints using archival tape,etc.

 

Jeff

[logan2z]

Dry mount tissue and release paper are made for use with dry mounting prints. I never had issues with marks. But frankly I got rid of my dry mount press and prefer to mat prints using archival tape,etc.

 

Jeff

 

FWIW, I'm not using the press to mount the prints, simply to flatten them.

[Jeff S]

Got it. I prefer air drying between print drying screens. Good enough for print sharing. For display, the matting process takes care of the rest.

 

Jeff

[logan2z]

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Got it. I prefer air drying between print drying screens. Good enough for print sharing. For display, the matting process takes care of the rest.

 

Jeff

 

That's exactly how I dry them, but fiber prints curl quite a bit while drying so I use the dry mount press to flatten them.  Just wondering what is causing these little pinholes and how to prevent them. 

[pico]

Please tell us what fiber paper you are using that curls so much so I can avoid it.

 

For flattening I do it the hard way: layers of blotting paper and prints pressed in an antique bookbinder's press.

 

One mistake I made was too strong a stop bath which caused pinholes in fiber prints.

Edited July 30, 2018 by pico

[logan2z]

Please tell us what fiber paper you are using that curls so much so I can avoid it.

 

For flattening I do it the hard way: layers of blotting paper and prints pressed in an antique bookbinder's press.

 

One mistake I made was too strong a stop bath which caused pinholes in fiber prints.

It's Ilford Multigrade fiber paper, pretty common stuff.

 

I don't believe this is a stop bath problem because these pinholes are not present after air drying and only show up after the print has been flattened in the press.

[Jeff S]

That's exactly how I dry them, but fiber prints curl quite a bit while drying so I use the dry mount press to flatten them. Just wondering what is causing these little pinholes and how to prevent them.

I only use fibre papers. There’s no room between screens (based on my screen and rack assembly) for the print to curl hardly at all. I stack two screens per slot and the space between is limited by the thin screen frames.

 

Jeff

Edited July 30, 2018 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

BTW, have you checked to ensure that your dry mount press platten is perfectly clean and smooth? Seal used to make a cleaner.

 

Jeff

[logan2z]

BTW, have you checked to ensure that your dry mount press platten is perfectly clean and smooth? Seal used to make a cleaner.

 

Jeff

Now we're getting somewhere I have a Seal press and I use mat board to sandwich the print during flattening. As I mentioned in my first post, I did my best to ensure that the mat board and the print were clean but it's possible that a small dirt particle or two snuck in there and left an impression in the emulsion under pressure. At least that's my theory but perhaps there is another explanation.

[Jeff S]

With a clean platten, release paper to further protect the print surface (and a smooth surface and clean archival board, if used), there should be no issues.

 

I still prefer screens and avoiding heat.

 

Jeff

[M.Hilo]

Like you I flatten my prints, with a Seal press (210) for up to 16X20 (40X50cm) and a Büscher press for 20X24 (50X60cm). I air dry my prints before pressing, by simply hanging them on lines . . . I print on Ilford fiber warmtone. I have been printing and using dry mounting presses since 1980.

 

Last winter I had the same problem and like you I thought the problem was in the carton sandwich of the press. It wasn't, instead I found that I have tiny pieces of metal in the water. They're so small you can hardly see them. These pieces had attached to the emulsion. I found out by carefully feeling the surface of the prints with my fingers. Then I began to check the water. In light colored trays these pieces were actually visible. Obviously the problem was in my water system.

 

I went to a hardware store and got a simple filter to install inside the tap. That reduced the problem a lot. Now I think I should get a more sophisticated filter, they must exist.

 

Quite a difficult problem. I have also had this in a former workspace, but not often. Both these spaces were / are quite old. Now I have a space in a former hospital built in 30ties, a building with three floors. I am in the top floor.

Edited August 1, 2018 by M.Hilo

[logan2z]

Like you I flatten my prints, with a Seal press (210) for up to 16X20 (40X50cm) and a Büscher press for 20X24 (50X60cm). I air dry my prints before pressing, by simply hanging them on lines . . . I print on Ilford fiber warmtone. I have been printing and using dry mounting presses since 1980.

 

Last winter I had the same problem and like you I thought the problem was in the carton sandwich of the press. It wasn't, instead I found that I have tiny pieces of metal in the water. They're so small you can hardly see them. These pieces had attached to the emulsion. I found out by carefully feeling the surface of the prints with my fingers. Then I began to check the water. In light colored trays these pieces were actually visible. Obviously the problem was in my water system.

 

I went to a hardware store and got a simple filter to install inside the tap. That reduced the problem a lot. Now I think I should get a more sophisticated filter, they must exist.

 

Quite a difficult problem. I have also had this in a former workspace, but not often. Both these spaces were / are quite old. Now I have a space in a former hospital built in 30ties, a building with three floors. I am in the top floor.

 

Thanks for posting.  I live in a home built in the 1950s, although we did a complete remodel about five years ago and installed all new plumbing lines.  Of course the area has fairly old infrastructure and who knows what the town plumbing lines that run to the house look like, so it's possible there are small fragments of something getting onto the prints.

 

One thing I did try was reducing the temperature at which I was setting the press.  I reduced it from 200 degrees to 150 degrees and doubled the time in the press to 4 mins.  I did this with the last two prints I made and - interestingly - no pin holes.  So perhaps I was exacerbating the problem with excessive heat which softened the emulsion too much.  The prints aren't coming out of the press quite as flat as they were at the higher temperature, but putting them under some heavy books overnight seems to get them pretty close.  I'll continue this for the next few prints I make and see if I just got lucky with the last couple or if this really has solved the problem.

[M.Hilo]

I don't think the temperature has anything to do with it. I also press at 200 degrees F. and I have done many, many prints that were fine.

 

By the way, it is good to experiment with lower temperatures, or setting the press with less tension. Which is what I have done. I can leave the prints in from 2 to 5 minutes without any problem. It makes for a quiet workflow while pressing.

 

What you should really do before pressing is touch lightly the emulsion side with your hands. Just make sure they are dry . . . If you have what I had, you will feel it !

 

A suggestion against slight curling after pressing: rest the prints over night between acid free blotters. After that I trim half a cm off all four sides - you cut away the tension in the paper . . .