Do you "see" a photo differently with an M8?

[Guest stnami]

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If nothing else, this will be an inteesting exercise for me. What I absolutely love about the M8 is that it's users can make the ordinary look extraordinary, capture things in an almost abstract manner but also capture images in a more representational manner as well, and I guess that is what I was driving towards with my original question

. this can be achieved with any camera , the camera does not make the ordinary look extraordinary, it's a combination of the photographer and audience... show a photo of something a person has never seen it will look extraordinary to them, or they may dismiss it as being unimportant. One of the first activities of many a photo course is to find non representational examples of elements and principles, ie line, colour, dominance, reptition, displacement etc Generally what happens when one gets a new camera, toy, car etc there is a added sense oy awareness

[Bob Ross]

I see an image before I have even got my camera out of my bag, and I do not see them any differently whether I use my M or my DMR. I don't shoot street or people.

 

IMHO (maybe for the kind of stuff I shoot), the "advantage" that a rangefinder offers with regards to seeing beyond the frame of the photograph is over-stated, especially when the framelines cannot be relied upon.

 

It's all a matter of taste or personal preference and one thing is for sure, there is no right or wrong answer.

Hi Andy,

You are right about using the term "advantage" rather than "different", because if you want to "see" focus or accurate framing, instead of doing "visual surgery" of a larger scene, the SLR or view camera is the tool (if it is a 100% finder). I do find that after using the M-class viewfinder for a while, when I pick up an SLR, there is some carry over in the way I envision the image. Going the other way, the carry over seems to be in the visualiztion of the DOF, for me. Some of the carry over gains aren't as important now that we have instant review.

Since we are talking about "seeing" differently with various tools, I did find using older manual lenses on a DSLR, where you have to close down, did improve my composition of the light/dark patterns in the image. So, another useful tool.

Bob

[sean_reid]

IMHO (maybe for the kind of stuff I shoot), the "advantage" that a rangefinder offers with regards to seeing beyond the frame of the photograph is over-stated, especially when the framelines cannot be relied upon.

 

It's all a matter of taste or personal preference and one thing is for sure, there is no right or wrong answer.

 

Hi Andy,

 

In agreement with your second paragraph, I don't think the advantages are over-stated at all but, rather, can vary from person to person. There are some people (myself included) who particularly value and use the way a rangefinder presents the subject to us via the finder. For us, the difference can be very important. By the same token, there are some photographers who really only treat one or two planes of the picture space as if it were subject. I see that very often in people's pictures.

 

If one does not think of the whole depth of the picture space (from closest to furthest) as being subject, then the value of the "window" may mean very little. To be sure, decades of photo clubs, photo magazines, how-to books, etc. have encouraged a very limited way of thinking about subject.

 

By the same token, photographers who don't use the visual information given to them in the area outside the frame lines may, likewise, not understand why that might be so valuable to some of us.

 

As a comparison example, I have no particular use for a high frames-per-second rate in a camera. Its not useful for my work. But I would never say that fps advantages are over-stated. Rather, I'd say that they're not relevant for some photographers.

 

And so on....I think that its important to remember that even if a given quality is not important to person "A", that doesn't mean it isn't important, only that it isn't important to him or her.

 

Were it otherwise, "Charlie" might say something like: "I think the value of Europe is over-stated. I live in the USA and never travel to Europe or buy products made there, etc." It might seem true for that person (however limited that perspective may be), but it certainly isn't globally true. Yet, that style of ad hoc argument is often made on the web. Fred doesn't himself value "X" ergo he claims "X is not valuable". The two are very different, as I'd imagine you'd agree.

 

Years ago, a friend of mine (a professor of developmental psychology) related a story about her 3-year old daughter who was doing some local shopping with her. I think it bears on this discussion.

 

Daughter: What's that building mommy?

Mother: It's a hotel, people can sleep and eat there.

Daughter: Mommy, why would anyone want to sleep in a hotel so close to home?

 

Funny, yes, but I see this logic often on the web.

 

When I read person A saying: "X is not important" I quietly translate that in my mind to;" Person A does not make much use of X and so he can't see why its important".

 

Likewise, when I read person B on this forum saying: "This picture by person C is no good." I quietly translate that to:

 

"Based on what person B does or does not know about pictures, does or does not value in pictures, does or does not expect from pictures, this picture seems no good to him."

 

No more, no less. Interesting discussion and civil, so far, to boot. It actually seems like a forum of adults. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Hi Andy,

You are right about using the term "advantage" rather than "different", because if you want to "see" focus or accurate framing, instead of doing "visual surgery" of a larger scene, the SLR or view camera is the tool (if it is a 100% finder). I do find that after using the M-class viewfinder for a while, when I pick up an SLR, there is some carry over in the way I envision the image. Going the other way, the carry over seems to be in the visualiztion of the DOF, for me. Some of the carry over gains aren't as important now that we have instant review.

Since we are talking about "seeing" differently with various tools, I did find using older manual lenses on a DSLR, where you have to close down, did improve my composition of the light/dark patterns in the image. So, another useful tool.

Bob

 

 

Or...considered another way. Rangefinder camera viewfinders have some advantages and SLR finders have different advantages. That doesn't mean that advantages aren't advantages, just that everything is a compromise and no one solution will be perfect for everyone.

 

All that said, I'm glad this this topic came up because those of us who do make particular use of the qualities inherent in an RF camera viewfinder might bring a new, and sometimes useful, awareness of those strengths to at least some photographers who might then put those to good use.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

. this can be achieved with any camera , the camera does not make the ordinary look extraordinary, it's a combination of the photographer and audience... show a photo of something a person has never seen it will look extraordinary to them, or they may dismiss it as being unimportant. One of the first activities of many a photo course is to find non representational examples of elements and principles, ie line, colour, dominance, reptition, displacement etc Generally what happens when one gets a new camera, toy, car etc there is a added sense oy awareness

 

Hi Imants,

 

Actually, I think that a photograph is so different from the subject itself that the former can indeed make the ordinary look extraordinary or the extraordinary look ordinary. It isn't just the camera for sure but we need the camera to do its thing (at, and according to, our bidding) in order to make pictures. Otherwise, we gotta draw or paint. I do a bit of the former but mainly to help me as a photographer.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Bob Ross]

Or...considered another way. Rangefinder camera viewfinders have some advantages and SLR finders have different advantages. That doesn't mean that advantages aren't advantages, just that everything is a compromise and no one solution will be perfect for everyone.

 

All that said, I'm glad this this topic came up because those of us who do make particular use of the qualities inherent in an RF camera viewfinder might bring a new, and sometimes useful, awareness of those strengths to at least some photographers who might then put those to good use.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Hi Sean,

I am always glad to see this topic, too. Part of that is that I learned the RF way by trial and error and in isolation from other users at that time. What has become instinct for me is often not enough to explain it to others, much less myself. Reading everyone's take on the subject helps me figure out how I developed the instinct.

Thanks for your input, in particular.

Bob

[sean_reid]

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Hi Sean,

I am always glad to see this topic, too. Part of that is that I learned the RF way by trial and error and in isolation from other users at that time. What has become instinct for me is often not enough to explain it to others, much less myself. Reading everyone's take on the subject helps me figure out how I developed the instinct.

Thanks for your input, in particular.

Bob

 

My pleasure. It is a treat to read a civil discussion that is about something meaningful.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean