Leica SL2 Specifications

[Likaleica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Back to the original post.... in addition to wider DR I would like to see:

 

Lighter body.  SL + battery = 847g.  X1D + battery = 725g. Both machined from aluminum blocks.  Nuf said.

Smoother curves, better ergonomics.  Maybe get some Italian designers involved?

In Body Image Stabilization.  That would be disruptive.  It would prolong life.  It would cool the planet.  It would change the world.

 

Otherwise it is an incredible camera.  When the R was discontinued I could not dream that Leica would replace it with such an amazing camera.

[LD_50]

No one in this forum cares for better AFC tracking capability,...it is still all about more pixels. Sigh.

I would like both higher resolution and a better AF system (as good as Nikon’s best would be great).

[Chaemono]

No one in this forum cares for better AFC tracking capability,...it is still all about more pixels. Sigh.

Yes, of course, Leica should license the latest DFD AF technology from Panasonic but it will be costly. Royalty rates can range from 7 to 15 percent of the selling price but given that the AF system is such a critical part of a camera they could be substantially more. And, perceived sharpness is a combination of resolution and acutance. The SL lenses knock it out of the park in the latter. Now all the SL needs is a sensor that captures a bit more resolution .

[geetee1972]

Don’t really care.

 

Jeff

Best way really

[sillbeers15]

Thanks,...I am glad there are some feedback from this forum regarding the current SL AF capability and wishes for the next leap of DFD technology to be made available in the next SL (i'm pretty certain it will as a small camera maker like Leics would not been able to sink AF technology development to catch up with the big boys. Besides it has not been the strength of Leica all along,...why reinvent the wheel, just buy wheels when the selling price of Leica cameras allow it to do so easily. So the rest of the forum members must still be learning how to use the calculator at this point in time.

[Chaemono]

I don’t use Sony, but to be fair, the new G Master series lenses are designed specifically for their high end sensors, with a minimum of 50 LP per mm.

 

Jeff

The only G Master FE lens I have access to is the 24-70mm f/2.8 FE. The “Most Helpful Positive Review” on B&H talks quite postively about it. I’ll do some side by side (over under) comparisons this weekend: α7R III + G Master 24-70 FE and SL + 24-90 Elmarit, wide open for both at 24 and at 35/50/70mm stopped for the Sony as well.

[Sully]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1.  IBIS

 

2.  Flash system that works as well as Nikon

 

Only these two specs would make me buy an SL2.

 

Ciao,  Sully

[Guest VVJ]

I believe there is a valid case to be made for 2 versions of the SL, one with 24MP and one with 48MP, personally I would stick with the 24MP.

 

IBIS is IMHO a must.  Not including IBIS would be a head-scratcher and could make me reconsider the SL and Leica in general.  And hopefully IBIS then also trickles down to the next versions of the TL and CL.

 

Please keep the user interface as is and do not go in the direction of the noughties CL/M10 user interface.

 

Besides that keep working on completing the lens line-up with hopefully after 3+ years some wider focal lengths like 21mm and 28mm in a small and compact format.

[Chaemono]

I did some side by side comparisons yesterday with the SL + 24-90 Vario-Elmarit and the α7R III + G Master 24-70 FE. Indeed, Leica should prioritize DR and high ISO performance with the SL2. Underexposing by two stops and pushing exposure in LR results in less noise and more detail with the α7R III as it should given the advantages of a back-illuminated sensor. But there are no reasons why the SL2, should it come with a BSI sensor, won’t be as good if not even better and come with 30+ MPx. I doubt there is a need for two versions of the SL2. Combine that with more acutance due to the terrific SL lenses (plus maybe Panasonic’s latest DFD AF System, just wishful thinking), and Leica will have a winner. I would really like to like the α7R III but the SL lenses just rock. And the Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-90 isn’t even the baddest one of them but it’s bad enough to kick some serious G Master butt IMO. Sharper in the corners wide open, too.

 

Some test shots here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-x8Mwmw/

 

 

[fotonutzz]

I hope Leica can incorporate something like the Live Composite mode.  This is great for seeing the effects of long exposures like star trails or light painting appearing as it is being captured.

Another feature would be Focus Bracketing which is great for macro shots.  

[antigallican]

What does an increase pixel count get us that we don't currently have with the 24mp model?

 

Nobody knows 

[antigallican]

I believe there is a valid case to be made for 2 versions of the SL, one with 24MP and one with 48MP, personally I would stick with the 24MP.

 

IBIS is IMHO a must.  Not including IBIS would be a head-scratcher and could make me reconsider the SL and Leica in general.  And hopefully IBIS then also trickles down to the next versions of the TL and CL.

 

Please keep the user interface as is and do not go in the direction of the noughties CL/M10 user interface.

 

Besides that keep working on completing the lens line-up with hopefully after 3+ years some wider focal lengths like 21mm and 28mm in a small and compact format.

 

Ibis would turn the SL into another pudgy Nikon clone. But a simple working flash system - preferably with HSS - would be a great improvement

Edited January 30, 2018 by antigallican

[geetee1972]

 

I did some side by side comparisons yesterday with the SL + 24-90 Vario-Elmarit and the α7R III + G Master 24-70 FE.

 

and proved beyond doubt that all the images are indistinguishable from each other.

 

You could in theory buy any camera today, any full frame camera and probably quite a few APS-C cameras and you won't see the difference between the images in terms of detail and sharpness. Colour is a different issue and in general the colour I got from the Sony was not at all nice as compared to the Leica SL.

 

The only thing that makes any real difference is what you point the camera you're holding at.

Edited January 30, 2018 by geetee1972

[Chaemono]

The G Master 24-70 is soft in the corners wide open. It sounds like you’re anxious to see more corners. I’ll do those next.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

These are from two that are included in this link posted earlier: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-x8Mwmw/. Now imagine the SL2 with 30+ MPx.

 

 

α7R III + FE 24-70 F2.8 G Master-I'm-a-bit-soft at 24mm corner crop

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

ISO 200 f/2.8 @1/800 sec.

 

SL + Vario-Elmarit 24-90 at 24mm corner crop

ISO 200 f/2.8 @1/800 sec.

 

[helged]

These are from two that are included in this link posted earlier: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-x8Mwmw/. Now imagine the SL2 with 30+ MPx.

 

 

It will come... (*)

 

Following Leica's argument for not increasing the S-sensor from 37.5 to less than 50 mp, any upgrade from 24 mp should reach 40-ish mp, at least. No doubt that the SL-lenses have the required, resolving power for the next generation(s) of sensor(s); it's more a question of when the Maestro-III processor is ready for processing and passing large amount of data in no time. Personally, I believe the S-system is the next to be updated (this year?), followed by the SL (2019?).

 

(*) Without any knowledge about this, just to avoid any form of misunderstandings...

[Wojtek]

It goes heavily against the main opinion here, but here's my wish:

 

 

I would specifically NOT want IBIS on the SL2.

 

 

It's a tough choice here, because SL lenses are huge anyway (new Summicrons are changing it), but if something could mess with Leica's IQ, I don't want that (in that case it's IBIS - potentially adding noise and vignetting and slowing down AF). I'd prefer SL to be slightly smaller and with better high ISOs, less vignetting and faster AF than to be able to use 1/5th shutter speed handheld which I wouldn't anyway - but I'm a portrait photographer, so my needs are surely different. But for me, 1/5th shutter speed is not for portraits (people will move). And if it's not a portrait, you probably should use a tripod anyway.

 

If we choose between "IBIS or no-IBIS?", the choice seems easy. It's better to have something than not to have it, right? But when we really think about it, the situation looks more like this:

 

Option A

+ IBIS

 

or

 

Option B

+ possibly slightly less noise

+ possibly slightly less vignetting

+ possibly slightly faster AF

+ possibly slightly smaller body

+ possibly slightly better price

- no IBIS

 

Personally I'd go for option B. 

 

And about other changes I'd love in SL2

• I'd love SL2 to redefine AF again. 
• I'd love it to be as well made as SL (no changes here please)
• I'd probably prefer it to have 36+ MP but I'm not yet sure about it (harder to achieve 100% sharp images, slower workflow, bigger files)
• Slightly faster user interface (opening images, turning things on/off, EVF, but not more FPS)
• Even better low light performance
• Possibly slightly smaller camera (but definitely not a must, I see it as CL is a small travel take-it-as-you-leave-home camera; M is slightly bigger, and SL is simply the one you take for professional works. It's smaller than Nikon D850 and Canon 5D, so in a "pro" world SL is on the smallish side)
• It's not a feature Leica itself could add but it's be great for light companies to work with Leica (Profoto recently started supporting Fuji and Sony)

If SL2 could be able to compete with D850 and 5D, it'd be a huge win. New lenses are coming.

 

PS. I don't own SL and used it only on 2 professional photo shoots. What I love about it is it's really an incredibly well built professional camera (imo better than D850, 5D and X1D) with great user interface. I love that SL lacks 60 buttons which other brands give you. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Wojtek

[LD_50]

It goes heavily against the main opinion here, but here's my wish:

 

 

I would specifically NOT want IBIS on the SL2.

  

Option B

+ possibly slightly less noise

+ possibly slightly less vignetting

+ possibly slightly faster AF

+ possibly slightly smaller body

+ possibly slightly better price

- no IBIS

 

Personally I'd go for option B. 

 

And about other changes I'd love in SL2

 

• I'd love SL2 to redefine AF again. 
• I'd love it to be as well made as SL (no changes here please)
• I'd probably prefer it to have 36+ MP but I'm not yet sure about it (harder to achieve 100% sharp images, slower workflow, bigger files)
• Slightly faster user interface (opening images, turning things on/off, EVF, but not more FPS)
• Even better low light performance
• Possibly slightly smaller camera (but definitely not a must, I see it as CL is a small travel take-it-as-you-leave-home camera; M is slightly bigger, and SL is simply the one you take for professional works. It's smaller than Nikon D850 and Canon 5D, so in a "pro" world SL is on the smallish side)
• It's not a feature Leica itself could add but it's be great for light companies to work with Leica (Profoto recently started supporting Fuji and Sony)

If SL2 could be able to compete with D850 and 5D, it'd be a huge win. New lenses are coming.

 

- Why would the addition of IBIS add noise? It could be turned off if that were a concern for some reason.

- Vignetting would only be an issue if for some reason the mount diameter were not designed with IBIS in mind for the future. This is hard to imagine if it were to make it into the SL2.

- Why would AF be slower with IBIS? I haven’t seen this with other cameras. See Sony A9 as an example.

- Size of the SL should not have to be impacted by addition of IBIS unless they did not plan for it.

- Price is already pretty high so I would hope Leica could hold the line here, for marketing purposes if nothing else.

 

— I don’t believe the SL ever “redefined AF.” Nikon (1 series and D# series), Canon (1DX and possibly others), Olympus (OMD-EM1), etc were all better than the SL and still are with more recent iterations.

— Do not degrade build quality — agreed!

— 36 MP (or any higher resolution) does not make it more difficult to achieve sharp images for equal output size relative to a lower resolution camera. It’s only easier to see motion blur, or shutter shock, or lens issues, etc at higher magnification.

— Faster UI is always good, though I think the SL is great already. Faster refresh rate for the EVF in low light would be welcome, as would no blackout (see Sony A9), but the current EVF is still the best on the market in my opinion.

— Low light AF would improve substantially with PDAF on sensor to assist the CDAF. EVF could be better in these conditions as well.

— I don’t want to see a smaller camera body at all. Lower weight would be good without build quality degradation.

— Leica does have something to do with the lighting system and they should fix it now. Work with established players to produce a working system or license technology from Nikon (like the Hasselblad X1D)

— I think the SL competes well with the D850 and 5D for my shooting already. I gave up a Nikon system for the SL system and am only really missing the Nikon AF. I shot a D4 and D4s so I already am doing better on resolution.

[Guest VVJ]

It goes heavily against the main opinion here, but here's my wish:

 

 

I would specifically NOT want IBIS on the SL2.

 

Turn it off and don't use it.  Problem solved.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Wojtek]

Turn it off and don't use it.  Problem solved.

 

 

"Sensor-shift IS systems operate by ‘floating’ the sensor using a series of electromagnets. Even when they’re ‘off’ they’re not locked in place, they’re simply set so that the electromagnets aren’t attempting to correct for movement. This has the side-effect that, which mounted on a professional stabilization rig, there’s a risk of the sensor being shaken around."

 

(This is in regard of video btw)

 

LD_50, I hope IBIS wouldn't affect AF, low light performance (shouldn't when switched off) and vignetting. But I don't believe it wouldn't affect any of price / size / noise / vignette / AF. 

Year, "redefining" AF was a very positive note. They redefined Leica's AF But nonetheless, the AF was very, very good for that moment. Now it's falling behind.