43-mm Filter Fit -- Redux

[Kent10D]

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I know this was discussed in an older thread, but having just run up against the issue myself I thought I'd post a "refreshed" perspective.

 

The Leica 43-mm UV/IR filter does not fit properly on Zeiss lenses with a 43-mm filter size. In my case that's both the Zeiss ZM 35 and 50. The filter can be screwed in part way, but the thread binds before the filter seats properly. In addition to the fact that this could potentially damage the threads of the lenses and filters, it's odd because a Leica 46-mm filter fits and seats perfectly on a Zeiss ZM 25. So it's not just a Leica vs. Zeiss thing, it seems that it's just that 43-mm filter size.

 

Now, noticing that the 43-mm filter is only offered in silver while other sizes are available in both black and silver, there is some speculation that the 43-mm size is specifically intended for older silver Leica lenses that have a slightly different filter thread pitch/size. If this is the case, am I expecting too much by suggesting that perhaps that nugget of information should be made available to people who might order 43-mm Leica filters for their not-necessarily-Leica lenses?

 

The upshoot is that you just screw the filter in (carefully) as far as it will comfortably go and work with it. But it's not right.

 

Any info?

 

Cheers,

 

Kent.

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[sean_reid]

Kent,

 

You might want to go with a B+W 486 filter instead.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Kent10D]

Thanks Sean.

 

That's probably what I'll end up doing. Those B+W filters are pretty hard to find where I live, especially in that size, but I'll find them somehow.

 

The real issue is having located actual Leica filters in my local camera outlet, being delighted, purchasing one for a significant sum (equivalent to about US$130.00 at the current exchange rate ... my "free" filters haven't arrived yet), and finding that it doesn't fit properly. And of course there's the fact that I requested a 43 as one of my two allowed filters for my M8, which I now know won't fit my lenses properly. And this is why I suggest that the incompatibility be made a little more public so that others don't fall into the same trap(s).

 

Cheers,

 

Kent.

[ho_co]

Kent--

I've forgotten where the breakpoint was with Leica filter pitch, but I think 43mm still used 0.5 mm (fine pitch) like 39mm and smaller. Larger (from all brands) use 0.75 mm pitch.

 

--HC

[Kent10D]

Howard,

 

Hi. So you're saying that all Leica filters and lenses have a different filter-thread pitch below a certain size?

 

Does that mean, for example, that a Leica 39-mm filter won't properly fit, say, a CV 21/4 (which has a 39-mm filter size)?

 

Kent.

[geoff]

...Does that mean, for example, that a Leica 39-mm filter won't properly fit, say, a CV 21/4 (which has a 39-mm filter size)?

 

I can confirm that the Leica 39mm E39 UV/IR filters (13410 - black and 13416 - silver) do indeed fit the following Cosina Voigtlander lenses:

 

•

Color-Skopar 21mm F4 P

•

Color-Skopar 25mm F4 P

•

Color-Skopar 35mm F2.5 P II

•

Heliar Classic 50mm F2

 

Additionally, the Leica 43mm E43 UV/IR filter (13417 - silver) fits the Cosina Voigtlander Nokton classic 40mm F1.4

 

 

Geoff

www.myspace.com/geoffotos

[Kent10D]

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Thanks for the info, Geoff.

 

So we're left with the fact that the Leica 43-mm UV/IR filter (13417) doesn't fit the Zeiss ZM 35 or 50, as confirmed by myself and several others, but it does fit the CV Nokton Classic. Hmm ...

 

Interesting, but a bit confusing.

 

A friend of mine is at the Leica store in Ginza (Tokyo) this afternoon, and he's planning to see if he can dig up any more information. I'll post back as soon as I know.

 

Kent.

[ho_co]

Hi. So you're saying that all Leica filters and lenses have a different filter-thread pitch below a certain size?

Kent--

In general, lenses of 39mm thread diameter and smaller use a "fine" pitch of 0.5 mm, and lenses with filter diameter of 49mm and up use a "medium" pitch of 0.75 mm, no matter who made the lens.

 

I think Leica used a 'fine' thread on 43mm lenses and a 'medium' thread on 48mm lenses; but that same breakpoint may not apply to all manufacturers.

 

Does that mean, for example, that a Leica 39-mm filter won't properly fit, say, a CV 21/4 (which has a 39-mm filter size)?

I guess I butted in with extraneous information that really didn't approach the question you were raising.

 

But Geoff has answered more to those specifics.

 

In other words, if it's 39mm diameter, it's going to be 0.5 mm pitch. I was surprised that Zeiss and Leitz didn't use the same pitch at 43mm; I guess one of them switched to 'medium' pitch at that diameter and the other didn't.

 

The upshoot is that you just screw the filter in (carefully) as far as it will comfortably go and work with it.

One advantage to Leica and B+W filters is that they are in brass mounts. The aluminum mounts some companies offer can get jammed on the lens even if you are careful.

 

--HC

[Kent10D]

OK, the word from the Ginza Leica store is ... they have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Sigh.

 

And Howard, I see your point. I guess Leica and Zeiss use a different "breakpoint," as you describe it. But now if the B+W 43-mm filters fit the Zeiss lenses perfectly, that means they won't fit Leica lenses? That doesn't seem right ... and I'm confusing myself again.

 

I know I may be making a mountain out of a molehill with this, since the slight difference doesn't render the filters unusable (I mean, people are shoving filters in the CV 15 with O-rings and packing tape!), but it does bug me.

 

Thanks,

 

Kent.

[Baxter]

I had no idea of this issue, but am suffering from exactly the same problem with my ZM50mm and the 43mm filter which Leica sent to me.

 

Supposedly they are sending me another 43mm filter, but nothing received yet. Mine is screwed on about 1/4 - 1/2 turn and quite precarious.

 

First reaction on reading this was to buy a cheap used 43mm filter that does screw in properly and then swap over the Leica filter glass.

 

Another annoying 'quirk' of these cameras. Must admit to never having experienced quite so many issues with any, or all indeed all of my other cameras together.

[rvaubel]

Another annoying 'quirk' of these cameras. Must admit to never having experienced quite so many issues with any, or all indeed all of my other cameras together.

 

Challenging isn't it? It does seem no matter what you do, there is some issue or quirk that needs to be resolved. This situation could kill any other camera but it seems that leicaphiles just accept these quirks as a challenge. Of course it helps that the camera is capable of just about the best, if not THE best files around. It all seems worth the effort, not to mention being members of an exclusive club that is on the bleeding edge of esoteric camera design. Those that can't take the heat have already got out of the kitchen long ago. You know who I mean, those that resent being "betta" testers. Jeesh, what wimps.

 

Rex

[isaac]

Hello Kent!

The Leica 43-mm UV/IR filter does not fit properly on Zeiss lenses with a 43-mm filter size. In my case that's both the Zeiss ZM 35 and 50. The filter can be screwed in part way, but the thread binds before the filter seats properly. In addition to the fact that this could potentially damage the threads of the lenses and filters, it's odd because a Leica 46-mm filter fits and seats perfectly on a Zeiss ZM 25. So it's not just a Leica vs. Zeiss thing, it seems that it's just that 43-mm filter size.

You can see the differences in filter threads at

Leica-M lenses

[Kent10D]

Thanks Harald!

 

Brilliant!

Now if we just had a similar list of threads for other lenses and filters, all of this would make sense.

 

Thanks again,

 

Kent.

[Guest V64]

I have a B+W 43mm filter on my ZM 50/f2 Planar - fits just fine.

 

David

[ho_co]

Drat!

 

I was going to buy a B+W for my early Summilux. (Old enough that Leica can't code it. )

 

But now I know I need to get a Leica filter instead.

 

Boy, talk about cornering the market! "Buy this lens and you have to buy my filter!"

 

Baxter--want to sell me the Leica (chrome mount--ugh!) filter for the cost of a B+W one? PM me if you're interested.

 

I knew I shouldn't have started reading this thread!

 

Kent--thanks for the topic; we've learned a lot.

 

And Harald--thanks for the M lens threads link!

 

--HC

[scho]

I had no idea of this issue, but am suffering from exactly the same problem with my ZM50mm and the 43mm filter which Leica sent to me.

 

Supposedly they are sending me another 43mm filter, but nothing received yet. Mine is screwed on about 1/4 - 1/2 turn and quite precarious.

 

First reaction on reading this was to buy a cheap used 43mm filter that does screw in properly and then swap over the Leica filter glass.

 

Another annoying 'quirk' of these cameras. Must admit to never having experienced quite so many issues with any, or all indeed all of my other cameras together.

 

Did they send you a replacement filter? I told them that I had the same problem with the 43mm filter and the reply was that there was nothing wrong with the filter and that I should only use it on Leica lenses.

[ho_co]

Sounds as if there is definitely a problem with the first batch of Leica filters.

 

Apparently all their first run of 43mm filters was too large in diameter. It wasn't that the pitch was off, as I had thought--in other words, trying to use a Leica-pitched filter on a non-Leica lens--but that the filter thread had been cut too large for the 43mm spec. See http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/27739-ir-filters-lfi-article.html#post290458.

 

So we now have two questions:

1) Do the Leica and Zeiss lenses use the same pitch; and

2) Are the Leica filters properly cut to begin with?

 

I'm beginning to think Sean is right--just get a B+W.

 

--HC

[teehas53]

In my case, the 43mm Leica IR/UV (silver) is NOT a perfect fit on my CV 40/1.4 Nokton. It threads in far enough to be secure, but definitely not far enough to be completely seated. Not really an issue, as it never comes off, and is snug enough to not be in danger of falling off on its own. And it's not far enough out to cause vignetting. Still, not a proper match.

 

FWIW, the B+W UV-only filter that used to live on the Nokton WAS a perfect fit. My IR/UV is most probably from the first batch of Leica filters however, so it may be off as stated above.

 

This (plus several other disturbing issues) have made me seriously question the QC at Leica. It's becoming evident that if you're going to be an early adopter with much of their digital stuff, you have to be prepared for the possibility of less-than-perfect products. Very unfortunate, from a manufacturer who has had a reputation for high-precision (and very high-priced) equipment...

 

T

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[Kent10D]

Ah-ha!

Well, at least it's nice to know that there actually is an issue here, as opposed to uninformed users simply buying or ordering the wrong filters. Now the question is what to do? Is the problem severe enough to warrant sending any non-fitting 43-mm filters back and possibly incurring another long wait, or is it wiser to just screw the darn things on and live with it?

 

I feel somewhat vindicated by this development, but it's annoying and worrying at the same time.

 

My free filters haven't arrived yet, so perhaps it's a good idea to wait until they get here to see if the 43-mm filter that comes is a "new improved" version.

 

Kent.

[scho]

Ah-ha!

Well, at least it's nice to know that there actually is an issue here, as opposed to uninformed users simply buying or ordering the wrong filters. Now the question is what to do? Is the problem severe enough to warrant sending any non-fitting 43-mm filters back and possibly incurring another long wait, or is it wiser to just screw the darn things on and live with it?

 

I feel somewhat vindicated by this development, but it's annoying and worrying at the same time.

 

My free filters haven't arrived yet, so perhaps it's a good idea to wait until they get here to see if the 43-mm filter that comes is a "new improved" version.

 

Kent.

I doubt that Leica will accept returns for exchange. As far as they are concerned, there is no problem using the 43mm filters on Leica lenses and if you need one that will fit your Zeiss lens you will have to look elsewhere. That is what I was told when I asked about returning mine.