Martin B Posted January 11, 2017 Share #41 Posted January 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry Steve I have to correct you regarding temperature control for C41 processing. It's really simple. I use a small water bath at 30.5c. With Tetenal developer tolerance is +/- 1°c, the blix is +/- 3°, stabiliser is room temperature. I've never had a failure and once under developed by 2 minutes without consequence! My mistake. Seriously colour is as easy as B&W used to be. I process in my kitchen, later I can provide photos if you like. Kind regards Christopher That's correct, but I found that the C-41 processing is more flexible than one might think. I normally do the C-41 development at about 40 deg C, but I have never seen a difference in my developed films when it was at a bit higher temperature, about 41-42 deg C either. I always use 3:30 minutes for developer and 6:30 minutes for BLIX. I set the temperature of my water bath to about 45 deg C to bring developer and BLIX to the needed about 41 deg C. I use the same bath to maintain my development tank in it during the development and bleach/fixing times. I normally keep chemicals out of my kitchen/food area and use two sinks in my bathroom instead (one for the hot water bath and the other one to rinse and wash the film). I have seen people saying that BLIX is not stable for long and that bleach and fixer should better be used separately. I believe this is correct if [Fe(CN)6]3- is used as bleach component - but nowadays in the commercial C-41 packages is most often used [Fe(EDTA)3]3- instead, a very stable iron complex. I am so far able to keep this BLIX stable in a closed glass bottle for nearly a year. The C-41 developer starts forming some slight precipitate which fully dissolves at 40 deg C. So far this is not a concern either. The RA-4 developer for my color print process is the most sensitive of all since it is not very air-stable. Even in a fully sealed glass bottle this developer starts degrading after about 8 months. You see it in a color change from yellowish to brownish. But even the brownish partially decomposed developer can still be used (I use about 120 ml per drum print development). After it has been used a few times for a day, I slop the developer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Hi Martin B, Take a look here Are there any benefits of using film compared to digital. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
George Furst Posted January 11, 2017 Share #42 Posted January 11, 2017 I just found a bunch of negatives at the bottom of a drawer that contain pictures taken during my vacation to the jungles of Vietnam. Well I should say a forced vacation paid for by Uncle Sam. I just scanned them for another post. Now could you have your digital photos stored to be used in 10 years let alone 50 years. It was amazing to see that the images are clear, clean, and well preserved, just like I took them yesterday. This would never happen with digital storage devices! Seems there is a constant update requiring one to do the same with files! Some times a big pain. As I said film has a big advantage in this area! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #43 Posted January 11, 2017 That's correct, but I found that the C-41 processing is more flexible than one might think. I normally do the C-41 development at about 40 deg C, but I have never seen a difference in my developed films when it was at a bit higher temperature, about 41-42 deg C either. I always use 3:30 minutes for developer and 6:30 minutes for BLIX. I set the temperature of my water bath to about 45 deg C to bring developer and BLIX to the needed about 41 deg C. I use the same bath to maintain my development tank in it during the development and bleach/fixing times. I normally keep chemicals out of my kitchen/food area and use two sinks in my bathroom instead (one for the hot water bath and the other one to rinse and wash the film). I have seen people saying that BLIX is not stable for long and that bleach and fixer should better be used separately. I believe this is correct if [Fe(CN)6]3- is used as bleach component - but nowadays in the commercial C-41 packages is most often used [Fe(EDTA)3]3- instead, a very stable iron complex. I am so far able to keep this BLIX stable in a closed glass bottle for nearly a year. The C-41 developer starts forming some slight precipitate which fully dissolves at 40 deg C. So far this is not a concern either. The RA-4 developer for my color print process is the most sensitive of all since it is not very air-stable. Even in a fully sealed glass bottle this developer starts degrading after about 8 months. You see it in a color change from yellowish to brownish. But even the brownish partially decomposed developer can still be used (I use about 120 ml per drum print development). After it has been used a few times for a day, I slop the developer. In my experience Martin , no difference between 30°C and 38°C. Henry @Steve to reply your question above I use this for all my negatives http://www.panodia.eu/en/consumer-area/the-album-workshop/233-tips-for-storing-slides-and-negatives Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrckdavies Posted January 11, 2017 Share #44 Posted January 11, 2017 That's correct, but I found that the C-41 processing is more flexible than one might think. I normally do the C-41 development at about 40 deg C, but I have never seen a difference in my developed films when it was at a bit higher temperature, about 41-42 deg C either. I always use 3:30 minutes for developer and 6:30 minutes for BLIX. I set the temperature of my water bath to about 45 deg C to bring developer and BLIX to the needed about 41 deg C. I use the same bath to maintain my development tank in it during the development and bleach/fixing times. I normally keep chemicals out of my kitchen/food area and use two sinks in my bathroom instead (one for the hot water bath and the other one to rinse and wash the film). I have seen people saying that BLIX is not stable for long and that bleach and fixer should better be used separately. I believe this is correct if [Fe(CN)6]3- is used as bleach component - but nowadays in the commercial C-41 packages is most often used [Fe(EDTA)3]3- instead, a very stable iron complex. I am so far able to keep this BLIX stable in a closed glass bottle for nearly a year. The C-41 developer starts forming some slight precipitate which fully dissolves at 40 deg C. So far this is not a concern either. Thanks Martin that's really helpful and quite technical for me. Kudos to you sir! I develop at 30 because my Paterson glass thermometer doesn't go higher - stop laughing I can hear you! Ha ha - my technical limitations! Best wishes Christopher Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 11, 2017 Share #45 Posted January 11, 2017 In my experience Martin , no difference between 30°C and 38°C Henry Thanks, this is interesting - I never tried at such lower temperature, but I will keep this info in mind! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 11, 2017 Share #46 Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks Martin that's really helpful and quite technical for me. Kudos to you sir! I develop at 30 because my Paterson glass thermometer doesn't go higher - stop laughing I can hear you! Ha ha - my technical limitations! Best wishes Christopher Sorry if I went a bit overboard with the technical and chemical description in my earlier post, but as chemist and scientist (plus being passionate in photography!) I always look deeper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrckdavies Posted January 11, 2017 Share #47 Posted January 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry if I went a bit overboard with the technical and chemical description in my earlier post, but as chemist and scientist (plus being passionate in photography!) I always look deeper It was brilliant- absolutely loved it. Great to learn from experts! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #48 Posted January 11, 2017 This picture show you the basin at 30°C I use. Below German Kaiser thermostatic heating plate Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M8-MacroElmar 90 For B&W devt , I do not need the basin , it's easier and more simple, and after 15 minutes you have your work done. @Steve , let dry the negative in the air Before drying , passage required (30 seconds) in a wetting agent example Kodak Photoflo Rg H Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M8-MacroElmar 90 For B&W devt , I do not need the basin , it's easier and more simple, and after 15 minutes you have your work done. @Steve , let dry the negative in the air Before drying , passage required (30 seconds) in a wetting agent example Kodak Photoflo Rg H ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268140-are-there-any-benefits-of-using-film-compared-to-digital/?do=findComment&comment=3183906'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #49 Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks, this is interesting - I never tried at such lower temperature, but I will keep this info in mind! Martin you can find in Tetenal C41 notice the possibility to work at 30°C and the development times. Rg H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 11, 2017 Share #50 Posted January 11, 2017 Martin you can find in Tetenal C41 notice the possibility to work at 30°C and the development times. Rg H Yes, you are right - I simply follow van't Hoff's rule to speed the process up at higher temperature Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 11, 2017 Share #51 Posted January 11, 2017 Dust prevention is easy-peasy. Just use an antistatic cloth or brush or even just run the negs between your fingers (the horror, the horror - whatever, it works for me). With digital ICE, which is remarkably effective, scanners have the upper hand compared to digitisation of colour negatives or positives (or C41 b&w film) so that speaks in favour of a dedicated scanner. Yes, I know it affects sharpness but it is in my experience negligible because I adjust sharpening at various stages of my workflow (and setting ICE to the lowest level is enough). For slightly more complex (but not by much) scanning workflow, you can wet mount with e.g. the Epson flatbed scanners (and other ones too), which reduces significantly the impact of dust. As for drying film, a shower cabinet works well. I never use the hot-shower-before method so I don't know how effective it is. In any event, with a few dust prevention methods akin to the above dust is usually not a problem. So colour isn't such a giant leap after all, that's good to know.What about drying film to prevent dust (the shower cubicle I've heard as one solution - run the shower for a minutes to 'mop-up' the residual airborne dust, then hang to dry, having used a wetting agent first.And then there's the dust that's almost unavoidable when scanning - one thing I wouldn't have the patience to do is to remove dust in PP. I don't find it counter intuitive to shoot film and then scan. Rather, I see it such that film is the best of both worlds because it allows for analogue and hybrid workflows, both of which retain the unique image qualities that film has and digital so utterly lacks. Sounds logical. It seems (to me) to be counter intuitive to shoot film, then scan. If the end result is digital for sharing etc (and that 99% of what I do) then a digital camera must be logical. On the other hand, analogue is unrivalled for the enjoyment of seeing the latent image appear in the developing tray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #52 Posted January 11, 2017 Batteries - and making sure they are charged for long days in the field! The list goes on. So many advantages! I've not picked up my M9 for weeks now since nobody has demanded an immediate result. Regards Christopher Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Chris you're right I forget the batteries So take a M3 or M-A no battery needed I have two digital cameras deeply stored in my Billingham bag I use them just to compare with film. Everything I have said in my various posts above are based on evidence photo. Rg Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted January 11, 2017 Share #53 Posted January 11, 2017 In my experience Martin , no difference between 30°C and 38°C. Henry Very interesting, I have an aquarium thermometer that will hold my water bath at 30 but I add hot water and process at 38. I assume I would need to add some time to the development? I'm headfing out on a business trip to a very pretty historic town today, I'm taking my Leica IIIa and a 1916 Kodak Brownie, both loaded with colour, the digital is staying home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #54 Posted January 11, 2017 Mike, Martin and Chris, Another example of color development at 30°C here with Fuji film and Kodak BW400CN Fred76 work (translation google french > english) https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpirate-photo.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D655&edit-text= Original link in french : http://pirate-photo.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=655 I think C41 process is easy . I'll begin E6 process for the new Ektachrome announced and soon to be produced by Kodak http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268000-ektachrome-is-coming-back/?p=3180311 Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrckdavies Posted January 11, 2017 Share #55 Posted January 11, 2017 This picture show you the basin at 30°C I use. Below German Kaiser thermostatic heating plate L1016509 (2)c41devkp400lf+++550.jpg M8-MacroElmar 90 For B&W devt , I do not need the basin , it's easier and more simple, and after 15 minutes you have your work done. @Steve , let dry the negative in the air Before drying , passage required (30 seconds) in a wetting agent example Kodak Photoflo Rg H Here's mine. I keep everything in the plastic tub and use it as my bath. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrckdavies Posted January 11, 2017 Share #56 Posted January 11, 2017 Henry, that's a challenge I will give my M9 lunchtime if the sun stays out. My new sensor seems very good since it was changed out in the summer at Wetzlar. Regards Christopher Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Henry, my lunchtime M9 challenge. I only had two minutes to grab this and a few to process the dng file. Not as picturesque as yours, but it shows the sensors range. ISO 160, 180sec f16, Zeiss ZM 28/2.8. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchfriis Posted January 11, 2017 Share #57 Posted January 11, 2017 Just came back from a trip to the beach, where I brought my Yashica 124G loaded with some Fujicolor Pro 160 NS. Not the best of weather and certainly not a great picture, but I love the feel of film. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268140-are-there-any-benefits-of-using-film-compared-to-digital/?do=findComment&comment=3184073'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #58 Posted January 11, 2017 Here's mine. I keep everything in the plastic tub and use it as my bath. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Chris your equipment is fine Congrats Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted January 11, 2017 Share #59 Posted January 11, 2017 Just came back from a trip to the beach, where I brought my Yashica 124G loaded with some Fujicolor Pro 160 NS. Not the best of weather and certainly not a great picture, but I love the feel of film. JCH nice color of the sea and the beach. Please post your pictures in our thread You are welcome : http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-1299 Regards Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 12, 2017 Share #60 Posted January 12, 2017 yeah wetting agent is super critical to avoid dust. You can't leave it out of your final rinsing process or expect it to be a dust magnet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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