dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2016 Share #1 Posted April 4, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yesterday I heard quite late in the day that Sahara dust is expected to reach the UK later this week so brought forward my planned Leitz 800 Telyt S / Leica SL experiment - even though light levels were falling at 17.30hrs. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The 800mm is not used very often because the whole package is quite a load to transport. The loaded trolly photo was taken at dusk after packing up. The whole package probably weighs over 150 pounds but the Eckla trolley copes well with it. The trolley also converts to a seat. The lens comprises 5 sections - the long hood slides over the front section for storage thus looks as if only 4 sections. The combination requires a substantial tripod - this is a heavy duty Berlebach wooden tripod with a built in levelling head. Additionally there's a Manfrotto 359 long lens mono support with a universal joint attached to a Manfrotto Super Clamp under the front end. The whole combination is very susceptible to 'wind' as well as vibration; it acts like a sail if not supported adequately. When the wind is strong the camera also has a tripod for additional support but the air was still yesterday. The camera/lens combination is attached to a modified astronomical telescope fork mount of Chinese origin - the majority of all astro observing apparatus is made in a few factories in China. The view across the lake at Ferry Meadows Nene Park Peterborough - looking towards the Lakeside Kitchen and Bar in the following photos … this and the above photos taken using a Leica C compact. Note the gunsight inside the 800mm lens handle. This was the first time I'd tried the SL with the 800mm using a Novoflex R to M adapter plus the Leica M to T adapter. Unfortunately vignetting is very apparent with the SL but unlikely this is due to the Novoflex adapter because I've used it with a 350mm Telyt R on the SL without any vignetting problems. Image taken at f8. Adding a Leitz 1.4x APO extender reduces the vignetting And using the Leitz 2x APO extender reduces the vignetting further. I was hoping the SL would be a good match for the 800mm Telyt but have to accept that vignetting will likely always be a problem - thus plans to sell my R9/DMR have been shelved because it works fine with the lens. So far have not tried the Leica T with the 800mm but its APS-C format should also be fine with the lens. I'd be interested to know if using the SL with the Apo Telyt R Modular System 800mm lens results in vignetting. Also plan to try the SL with a Leitz 560mm Telyt R and Noflexar T 400mm - both 'telescope' lenses and maybe also susceptible to image vignetting on a FF mirrorless camera? Best wishes dunk Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The 800mm is not used very often because the whole package is quite a load to transport. The loaded trolly photo was taken at dusk after packing up. The whole package probably weighs over 150 pounds but the Eckla trolley copes well with it. The trolley also converts to a seat. The lens comprises 5 sections - the long hood slides over the front section for storage thus looks as if only 4 sections. The combination requires a substantial tripod - this is a heavy duty Berlebach wooden tripod with a built in levelling head. Additionally there's a Manfrotto 359 long lens mono support with a universal joint attached to a Manfrotto Super Clamp under the front end. The whole combination is very susceptible to 'wind' as well as vibration; it acts like a sail if not supported adequately. When the wind is strong the camera also has a tripod for additional support but the air was still yesterday. The camera/lens combination is attached to a modified astronomical telescope fork mount of Chinese origin - the majority of all astro observing apparatus is made in a few factories in China. The view across the lake at Ferry Meadows Nene Park Peterborough - looking towards the Lakeside Kitchen and Bar in the following photos … this and the above photos taken using a Leica C compact. Note the gunsight inside the 800mm lens handle. This was the first time I'd tried the SL with the 800mm using a Novoflex R to M adapter plus the Leica M to T adapter. Unfortunately vignetting is very apparent with the SL but unlikely this is due to the Novoflex adapter because I've used it with a 350mm Telyt R on the SL without any vignetting problems. Image taken at f8. Adding a Leitz 1.4x APO extender reduces the vignetting And using the Leitz 2x APO extender reduces the vignetting further. I was hoping the SL would be a good match for the 800mm Telyt but have to accept that vignetting will likely always be a problem - thus plans to sell my R9/DMR have been shelved because it works fine with the lens. So far have not tried the Leica T with the 800mm but its APS-C format should also be fine with the lens. I'd be interested to know if using the SL with the Apo Telyt R Modular System 800mm lens results in vignetting. Also plan to try the SL with a Leitz 560mm Telyt R and Noflexar T 400mm - both 'telescope' lenses and maybe also susceptible to image vignetting on a FF mirrorless camera? Best wishes dunk ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258931-leitz-800mm-telyt-s-with-the-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3020289'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Hi dkCambridgeshire, Take a look here Leitz 800mm Telyt S with the SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wildlightphoto Posted April 4, 2016 Share #2 Posted April 4, 2016 Also plan to try the SL with a Leitz 560mm Telyt R and Noflexar T 400mm - both 'telescope' lenses and maybe also susceptible to image vignetting on a FF mirrorless camera? Try using a Novoflex R-to-T adapter instead of the two-adapter stack. The M mount in the middle of the stack is causing most if not all of the vignetting. The vibration issue is why I prefer the Sony a7II with long lenses. The sensor stabilization substantially reduces the need for such an elaborate support system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted April 4, 2016 Thanks Doug … so more spending necessary!! Hope it works. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted April 4, 2016 Share #4 Posted April 4, 2016 I actually reported somewhere in this thread a test that should be relevant to this very - hmmm - impressive setup. The test was with Canon FD 500mm f4.5L on the SL with the Novoflex LET/CAN adapter. No vignetting at all. With the Leica T2M+M2R-adapters: Vignetting in line with the examples shown above (and caused by the smallish opening of the M2R-adapter). So try a Novoflex R-to-T adapter as suggested by wildlightphoto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #5 Posted April 4, 2016 Thanks … more spending … but I'm getting weary of the sardines and porridge diet !! Already spent too much this month. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted April 4, 2016 Share #6 Posted April 4, 2016 My wife says I have an apparent unlimited budget for gear, and that I exceed it with regularity. But she is a good sport and I'm lucky. I also don't have a 800mm or anything like it. That is an impressive setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted April 4, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just ordered the Novoflex R to T adapter and it should arrive within 12 days … also off to Aldi to buy more porridge and sardines … this is the year of the Leica ££spend and all these accessory costs are adding up !! I wish Leica Camera AG would introduce all required accessories a lot sooner - it's very frustrating trying to fudge an non-vignetting adapter solution for R lenses especially as the SL was partly introduced to satisfy existing R lens users' / owners' needs. If any Leica Society members are reading this you'll have a chance to try the 800mm Telyt S at the Corsham near Bath TLS AGM on Saturday 30 April at 10am - subject to TLS Committee's agreement for my proposed demo. You can use your SD cards in my cameras or use your own cameras via my adapters. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted April 4, 2016 Share #8 Posted April 4, 2016 Try using a Novoflex R-to-T adapter instead of the two-adapter stack. The M mount in the middle of the stack is causing most if not all of the vignetting. The vibration issue is why I prefer the Sony a7II with long lenses. The sensor stabilization substantially reduces the need for such an elaborate support system. I don't know about sensor stabilization with an 800mm monster like that. I'd still need the support ... I am sure I could barely even lift it! ... and few stabilization systems that I've used can cope with such a long lens. Never mind that you normally have to turn the stabilization off on a tripod or suffer high frequency jitter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted April 4, 2016 I don't know about sensor stabilization with an 800mm monster like that. I'd still need the support ... I am sure I could barely even lift it! ... and few stabilization systems that I've used can cope with such a long lens. Never mind that you normally have to turn the stabilization off on a tripod or suffer high frequency jitter. It's just a 3 element telescope lens … but the glass mix is rather special and in good light ( as distinct from yesterday's poor light) the images do have a nice glow. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted April 4, 2016 Share #10 Posted April 4, 2016 I don't know about sensor stabilization with an 800mm monster like that. I'd still need the support ... I am sure I could barely even lift it! ... and few stabilization systems that I've used can cope with such a long lens. Never mind that you normally have to turn the stabilization off on a tripod or suffer high frequency jitter. I don't know about an 800mm lens but the Sony's sensor stabilization works well with the 500mm FD + 1.4x extender, about 700mm, using only a tripod (Gitzo 5-series) and 3-way head. I have not seen any problems using the Sony's stabilization on a tripod. Maybe it's just the CaNikon optical stabilization systems that have these problems. (Western Screech-Owl, cropped significantly) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted April 4, 2016 Share #11 Posted April 4, 2016 I don't know about an 800mm lens but the Sony's sensor stabilization works well with the 500mm FD + 1.4x extender, about 700mm, using only a tripod (Gitzo 5-series) and 3-way head. I have not seen any problems using the Sony's stabilization on a tripod. Maybe it's just the CaNikon optical stabilization systems that have these problems. I haven't used the Sonys with IS, but I found limitations using a 600mm mirror lens on Pentax and Olympus bodies, both with in-body image stabilization. I've seen jitter using everything from 11 to 400mm on the same bodies with IS enabled, mounted on a tripod. Not all the time, but enough that I turn it off. Sometimes it's pretty subtle, other times it is very obvious. I've only had two OIS lenses with Nikon and Canon bodies, and saw the jitter there too—again not all the time, but occasionally. IS is designed to minimize a particular spectrum of vibration induced by human musculature across a specific range of focal lengths and magnifications (OIS is designed to work with a specific lens, of course). Neither are designed to damp the high-frequency vibration that a tripod or camera stand resonant frequency can induce. But, of course, if it's working for you ... take advantage of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted April 4, 2016 Share #12 Posted April 4, 2016 But, of course, if it's working for you ... take advantage of it. In the last year using the a7II on or off tripod the only time I saw any advantage to turning the SteadyShot off was when using the 280 APO on a tripod. The lens is too sharp and I got color moire in the tail feathers of a Western Scrub-Jay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted April 5, 2016 Share #13 Posted April 5, 2016 Just ordered the Novoflex R to T adapter and it should arrive within 12 days … also off to Aldi to buy more porridge and sardines … this is the year of the Leica ££spend and all these accessory costs are adding up !! Could send you a few bags of cornflakes as a substitute for the porridge - from Lidl for a change. Or brisling instead of sardines ... Stephan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2016 Share #14 Posted April 5, 2016 Maybe it's just the CaNikon optical stabilization systems that have these problems. The IS built into the Canon 800mm lens has a secondary tripod mode to specifically address this....and only $13,000.... http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-800mm-f-5.6-L-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx Other recent Canon tele/zoom lenses incorporate this same feature, allowing one to leave IS on when tripod mounted. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted April 5, 2016 Share #15 Posted April 5, 2016 Try using a Novoflex R-to-T adapter instead of the two-adapter stack. The M mount in the middle of the stack is causing most if not all of the vignetting. The vibration issue is why I prefer the Sony a7II with long lenses. The sensor stabilization substantially reduces the need for such an elaborate support system. Hello Doug, you mentioned that you are using a Canon FD 500mm mirror lens. Is there a reason you chose this lens ? Is it better quality than the cheap Wallimex or Bowen or Vivitar etc. ? I think about buying a 800mm mirror lens (or a 500mm to start) (and I cannot afford the Telyt-S ) and have no idea how to find a suitable lens. Some cost almost nothing - that means I really do not trust them. On the other hand some used lenses (Leica, Zeiss) are quite expensive. How did you find the right lens ? (Just coincidence that you started with Canon gear ?) I would not mind a new lens - any hint how to get a decent performer ? Thanks. Stephan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted April 5, 2016 Share #16 Posted April 5, 2016 Hello Doug, you mentioned that you are using a Canon FD 500mm mirror lens. Is there a reason you chose this lens ? Is it better quality than the cheap Wallimex or Bowen or Vivitar etc. ? I think about buying a 800mm mirror lens (or a 500mm to start) (and I cannot afford the Telyt-S ) and have no idea how to find a suitable lens. Some cost almost nothing - that means I really do not trust them. On the other hand some used lenses (Leica, Zeiss) are quite expensive. How did you find the right lens ? (Just coincidence that you started with Canon gear ?) I would not mind a new lens - any hint how to get a decent performer ? Thanks. Stephan It's not a mirror lens. The Canon FD 500mm f/4.5 L is a normal refractive lens, big size, typical aperture control and all. I chose this lens because a modular APO Telyt is out of my price range I also compared it with the Nikon 500mm f/4 P manual-focus lens. What I wanted was high-quality images, light weight and affordability. The modular APO-Telyts failed the affordability and weight tests, the Nikon lens shows some of the color fringes that I want to avoid in out-of-focus areas, it's also heavier and more expensive than the Canon FD lens. The Canon FD 500 L isn't perfect but its lateral chromatic aberration can be fixed in software and it's the least heavy and least expensive of the alternatives I considered. I used the Leitz 560mm f/6.8 Telyt for many years and it has the advantages of relatively low weight and cost. It can produce images that are quite sharp however it also produces the bright color fringes that I want to avoid. Notice the upper part of this photo: The 560 Telyt's unique focussing action (hardly what I'd call a mechanism) is also more difficult for my increasingly arthritic hands and shoulder to use than a traditional focussing ring, particularly on a tripod or when contorted in the front seat of my truck. Canon FD lenses in general can be less expensive than comparable Nikon lenses because until very recently with the Sony a7 series and now with the Leica SL there were no "full-frame" digital cameras that could use them without sacrificing infinity focus or without surgical modification. Some of the FD lenses are very ordinary performers but a few of the L lenses can be quite good when combined with modern image-processing software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share #17 Posted April 6, 2016 Try using a Novoflex R-to-T adapter instead of the two-adapter stack. The M mount in the middle of the stack is causing most if not all of the vignetting. The vibration issue is why I prefer the Sony a7II with long lenses. The sensor stabilization substantially reduces the need for such an elaborate support system. The Novoflex LET/LER Leica R to Leica T adapter arrived today but the wet and windy weather prevents using today with the 800mm. However, the adapter is beautifully made and is an excellent fit - no 'slop' or 'looseness'. The following pics show the rear internal diameter comparison between the Leica M to T adapter on the L.H.S. and the Novoflex R to T adapter on the R.H.S. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The Novoflex R to M adapter is attached to the front of the Leica M to T adapter on the L.H.S. The difference in rear internal diameters is obvious ... … and here are the actual 37mm and 47mm internal diameter measurements (Above photos taken using Leica C compact, handheld using the wide angle end of the zoom - hence the slight distortion) Clearly, the new Novoflex adapter's rear end has approx 10mm additional clearance advantage compared to that of the Leica M to T - but of course this is to be expected due to the necessary electronic contacts included in the Leica M to T adapter. Now looking forward to using the new Novoflex R to T adapter with the 800mm Telyt S and hopefully producing non-vignetted images. Thank you again Doug. Best wishes dunk Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The Novoflex R to M adapter is attached to the front of the Leica M to T adapter on the L.H.S. The difference in rear internal diameters is obvious ... … and here are the actual 37mm and 47mm internal diameter measurements (Above photos taken using Leica C compact, handheld using the wide angle end of the zoom - hence the slight distortion) Clearly, the new Novoflex adapter's rear end has approx 10mm additional clearance advantage compared to that of the Leica M to T - but of course this is to be expected due to the necessary electronic contacts included in the Leica M to T adapter. Now looking forward to using the new Novoflex R to T adapter with the 800mm Telyt S and hopefully producing non-vignetted images. Thank you again Doug. Best wishes dunk ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258931-leitz-800mm-telyt-s-with-the-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3021648'>More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted April 6, 2016 Share #18 Posted April 6, 2016 Now looking forward to using the new Novoflex R to T adapter with the 800mm Telyt S and hopefully producing non-vignetted images. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share #19 Posted April 13, 2016 The Novoflex LET/LER Leica R to Leica T adapter arrived today but the wet and windy weather prevents using today with the 800mm. However, the adapter is beautifully made and is an excellent fit - no 'slop' or 'looseness'. The following pics show the rear internal diameter comparison between the Leica M to T adapter on the L.H.S. and the Novoflex R to T adapter on the R.H.S. L1040487rslf.jpg The Novoflex R to M adapter is attached to the front of the Leica M to T adapter on the L.H.S. L1040483rslf.jpg The difference in rear internal diameters is obvious ... L1040493rslf2.jpg … and here are the actual 37mm and 47mm internal diameter measurements (Above photos taken using Leica C compact, handheld using the wide angle end of the zoom - hence the slight distortion) Clearly, the new Novoflex adapter's rear end has approx 10mm additional clearance advantage compared to that of the Leica M to T - but of course this is to be expected due to the necessary electronic contacts included in the Leica M to T adapter. Now looking forward to using the new Novoflex R to T adapter with the 800mm Telyt S and hopefully producing non-vignetted images. Thank you again Doug. Best wishes dunk Tried the Novoflex R to T adapter today and pleased to advise that no vignetting evident when the SL 601 was used with the 800mm Telyt S. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share #20 Posted April 14, 2016 Tried the Novoflex R to T adapter today and pleased to advise that no vignetting evident when the SL 601 was used with the 800mm Telyt S. dunk Hmmm … Spoke too soon … Although no vignetting was apparent in the VF when composing the images, there is still some vignetting visible in the downloaded image files - but not as severe as with the previously used M to T plus Novoflex R to M adapters. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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