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28mm Summilux #11668 or 28mm Summicron #11672 - which one?


Herr Barnack

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That's the question:  For those who are getting ready to drop cash on the purchase of a new 28mm M lens, are you going to go with the upgraded Summicron #11672 or the Summilux #11668? 

 

We have threads on both lenses going but there is no real discussion of who is buying which lens and the reasons behind that decision. 

 

If you have recently purchased either lens, please feel free to weigh in too.

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I would say the only reason for buying the Summilux over the Summicron is that money is no object and that you want the best and don´t care about size and weight. 

The Summilux is considerably larger and heavier and cost almost double of the Summicron. From what I have seen so far the sharpness at F2 seems to be the same. 

Is that extra stop worth it? No one but you can make that decision. 

 

I was offered both lenses in the last months, but turned them down. Im totally fine with my old Summicron and the Leica Q  :p

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Sure - but there are cases where the 28Cron fails whereas the 28Lux might work. An example below (SL+28LuxM, f1.4/20sec/1600ISO).

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A more relevant example for most shooters, I imagine:

 

How would the next-to-new (#11604) and new (#11672) 28Cron handle the edges and corners in the example below? I have the #11604 Cron, and I do think that light fall-off and mis-colouring at the edges/corners would be substantial (albeit possibly curable). 

 

As a follow up to the above: Could someone out there - with access to both of the latest incarnations of the 28Crons - shoot scenes with white beaches, buildings, show, fog, clouds - at various apertures, to check differences in the edge/corner light fall-off and/or miscoloring between the to lenses? (yes, we have CornerFix and Flat-Field, etc. - but it would be good to see the lens characteristics out of camera).

 

THANKS!

 

(SL+28Lux at f8, with modest pp).

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I would say the only reason for buying the Summilux over the Summicron is that money is no object and that you want the best and don´t care about size and weight. 

The Summilux is considerably larger and heavier and cost almost double of the Summicron. From what I have seen so far the sharpness at F2 seems to be the same. 

Is that extra stop worth it? No one but you can make that decision. 

 

I was offered both lenses in the last months, but turned them down. Im totally fine with my old Summicron and the Leica Q  :p

 

Regarding price, the new 28 Summicron is selling for $3995 in the U.S. while the 28 Summilux is going for $5950; that's more along the lines of a 50% increase in price, which seems to be the standard premium (give or take a few dollars) that is attached to M lenses when buying an extra f/stop. 

 

The extra stop that the Summilux gives you - along with the other improvements that come with that lens - will give you some capabilities to capture images that the Summicron may come up short on.  The questions are what kind of shooting situations would those be and how often will we run in to those situations?  Astrophotography seems to be one of those situations, along with high key snow filled landscapes.

 

Who will buy the 28 Summilux over the 28 Summicron?  Will it be seasoned, discerning M photographers who sacrifice and live for photography?  Will it be the most OCD among us whose pursuit is the capturing and making of images that are of transcendent beauty?  Will it be rampant type A personalities who are long on cash reserves and ego but short on photographic ability and insight that want to be seen with only the most expensive of gear, mistakenly thinking that this makes them an image maker of formidable skill?  Will it be Hollywood glitterati who surf the waves of trend, erroneously equating an M-P 240 with a 28 Summilux mounted to it with style and fashion?

 

Leica's corporate goals are threefold - to survive and thrive in the marketplace, to make a profit and to make the best lenses and cameras in the world.  They are succeeding at all three of those intentions IMHO.  Did Leica create the 28 Summilux with the intention of creating the best 28mm lens in the world|?  Is it we who are attaching a lot of emotional nonsense to this lens based only on its price?  And lastly:  In creating the 28 Summilux, did Leica create the best 28mm lens in the world?

 

There are a lot of threads to pick at in trying to fully comprehend this lens and its place in our world...

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Sure - but there are cases where the 28Cron fails whereas the 28Lux might work. An example below (SL+28LuxM, f1.4/20sec/1600ISO).

@helged,

Your image is truly beautiful - well done!

 

Can you comment on how using the 28 Summilux made this image possible where using the 28 Summicron, the lens would have come up short or would have failed?

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In creating the 28 Summilux, did Leica create the best 28mm lens in the world?

 

 

Let's ask the Magic Mirror:

 

- Mirror mirror on the wall, what's the best 28 of all ?

 

- The Leica one is fair, 'tis right. But the best 28 is Zeiss.

 

Note that the Mirror may be biased because it was actually a SLR mirror.

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There's a parallel land known in some quarters as here, where Leica lenses command premium prices because one of their great and uncontested virtues is their small size, with no loss of quality to pay for it.

 

I like the 28mm Summicron because f2 is fast, it performs beautifully, and it's small. That makes it the best 28mm lens for me. However, I already own it so I'm not contemplating which one to buy.

 

No lens is objectively the best, so go with what you like.

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Can you comment on how using the 28 Summilux made this image possible where using the 28 Summicron, the lens would have come up short or would have failed?

 

 

I have not used the 28Cron on a similar scene, so this is my subjective reasoning:

 

The exposure time for an astro-shot like the one presented above should not exceed 20-30 sec in order to avoid star trails (star trails can be fine, but that's an other type of photo). In Leica (colour) sensor land, the SL is ok up to about ISO1600 (for such a scene) but becomes more groggy and less workable in pp at higher ISOs. With these constraints, the scene worked well with SL+28Lux at f1.4. For 28Cron, either a longer exposure time or a higher ISO or a combination thereof had to be used. Obviously, there are other sensors out there that can be used at higher ISO - and Leica Monochrome can certainly be pushed much higher - but amongst M9, M240 and SL, SL is the one that can pushed most.

 

Two additional issues in disfavour of the 28Cron are - again without having images to prove my suspicion: A rather heavy light fall-off at f2 and typical mis-colouring at the edges/corners. The 28Cron should therefore possibly be used at f2.8 or thereabout, complicating the equation further.

 

I certainly like the 28Cron (#11604), particularly on a monochrome sensor (an example is shown below, on MM, with an orange filter attached), but I sometimes struggle with the lens on a colour sensor when snow is a major part of the image.

 

For the latter reason, I am interesting in learning how the newest version of the 28Cron behaves on a Leica colour sensor like M240 or SL. The new 28Elmarit is also interesting as a small and low-weight lens for outdoor (daylight) shooting (any examples with the 28Elmarit used for snowy scenes out there?).

 

The down-sides of the 28Lux are weight and size, so this lens is not the first choice for strenuous, multi-day hiking. Add the cost, and the lens may or may not be the optimal choice.

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...The down-sides of the 28Lux are weight and size, so this lens is not the first choice for strenuous, multi-day hiking. Add the cost, and the lens may or may not be the optimal choice.

There's a lot of truth there.  These factors and others are leading me to conclude that the new 28 Summicron will best serve my purposes.  the 'cron is fast - fast enough, although not super fast.  The weight is within reason, although I do not place a high priority on light weight.  Compared to DSLR and medium format lenses, M glass is a godsend in terms of weight.  The almost $2000 price difference that favors the 'cron doesn't hurt its chances, either.

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The 28 Lux offers lovely rendering wide open. That's why I bought it.  It is indeed big and heavy, especially by the end of the day.  I'm more comfortable walking all day with the 35 FLE than the 28 Lux, but more images made with later make me smile.  

 

I am considering the new 28/2.8. 

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I have both and I'm selling the 28 lux for few reason, image quality not better or similar with 35 lux, it has more vignette (which is no problem), CA is there (normal for fast lens non APO), last but importantly, for few people its quite heavy.

 

After my recent travelling with spouse and baby, weight and compactness are my main consideration. I brought along M-P 240+50 APO, SL+24-90, with 28 lux in my big but light billi bag S4. When you take a walk 7-8 hours a day covering 7-8 km your shoulder will hurt, after 3-4 days your back become sore. I know maybe I should change to backpack, but I imagine how convinient and enjoyable it will be if I bring less and lesser weight. For next trip I considering bring along only just M-P 240, SL with 28 cron, 50 APO thats it. 

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After my recent travelling with spouse and baby, weight and compactness are my main consideration. I brought along M-P 240+50 APO, SL+24-90, with 28 lux in my big but light billi bag S4. When you take a walk 7-8 hours a day covering 7-8 km your shoulder will hurt, after 3-4 days your back become sore.

 

 

Some fabulous gear but I'm not surprised you are reconsidering carrying so much around with you. A single M body and 35 lens is about my limit, especially for something like a family day out.

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I have both and I'm selling the 28 lux for few reason, image quality not better or similar with 35 lux, it has more vignette (which is no problem), CA is there (normal for fast lens non APO), last but importantly, for few people its quite heavy.

 

After my recent travelling with spouse and baby, weight and compactness are my main consideration. I brought along M-P 240+50 APO, SL+24-90, with 28 lux in my big but light billi bag S4. When you take a walk 7-8 hours a day covering 7-8 km your shoulder will hurt, after 3-4 days your back become sore. I know maybe I should change to backpack, but I imagine how convinient and enjoyable it will be if I bring less and lesser weight. For next trip I considering bring along only just M-P 240, SL with 28 cron, 50 APO thats it. 

IMHO,  your problem is not too much gear, but rather your bag.  You can carry only a limited amount of gear in a shoulder bag before it starts to cause problems and pain.  For me, my M-P 240 and two lenses is about it.  You have to wear the strap diagonally across your chest, too but even doing that does not mean you can carry 15-20 pounds of kit without pain.

 

The amount of kit you mention above is not too heavy, provided you are carrying it in a properly designed and well made camera backpack.  A backpack distributes the weight evenly on the load bearing components that are designed into the human skeletal system.  This is not the case with a shoulder bag, which is where the trouble begins.

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The amount of kit you mention above is not too heavy, provided you are carrying it in a properly designed and well made camera backpack.

 

 

Backpack problem: reduced accessibility for the owner and increased accessibility for thieves.

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Some fabulous gear but I'm not surprised you are reconsidering carrying so much around with you. A single M body and 35 lens is about my limit, especially for something like a family day out.

 

It was a long trip to HK, I must say few years ago my DSLR almost failed me on a shoot in the island 50 miles from shore. For me in long trip, a backup is necessary. 

 

IMHO,  your problem is not too much gear, but rather your bag.  You can carry only a limited amount of gear in a shoulder bag before it starts to cause problems and pain.  For me, my M-P 240 and two lenses is about it.  You have to wear the strap diagonally across your chest, too but even doing that does not mean you can carry 15-20 pounds of kit without pain.

 

The amount of kit you mention above is not too heavy, provided you are carrying it in a properly designed and well made camera backpack.  A backpack distributes the weight evenly on the load bearing components that are designed into the human skeletal system.  This is not the case with a shoulder bag, which is where the trouble begins.

I measure the total weight of my kit plus charger filter etc, 5.6kg this include the bag. I tried to walk with it in my home before the trip which I thought would be fine lol. First day still fine, but long  after I weight down the SL zoom, just bring the 2 camera 2 lenses. 

 

Backpack problem: reduced accessibility for the owner and increased accessibility for thieves.

True, I was using a backpack in my DSLR day because it bulky and so heavy. 

 

All in all, I reduce my lenses to only summicrons, if I were having enough money, I will collect both offcourse  :D

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These were my reasons to not buy the Summilux but the new Summicron:

- I was not convinced by the examples shown by jonoslack in his review, relative to the (old) Summicron I found it a bit soft, as is my impression of all the  Summiluxes of 28 and wider

- it is heavy

- you must be an avid 28-lover to be prepared for such an investment

- in general, Summiluxes at  28 and below are of very relative worth in my view, selective focus and relative sharpness has limited impact in comparison to 35 and up. You still pay a lot and carry a lot

- I mostly do street- and travel photography and there Summicrons suit me better. I have two Summiluxes, 35 and 75, and that is heavy enough

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Backpack problem: reduced accessibility for the owner and increased accessibility for thieves.

True.  Enter the Camsafe:  http://www.pacsafe.com/camsafe-v11-camera-front-pack.html  Both problems solved. 

 

I have an older version of this sling bag:  http://www.pacsafe.com/camsafe-z14-anti-theft-camera-tablet-cross-body-pack.html

While it is not a backpack, it does manage to carry a decent amount of weight and kit comfortably.  I can move it from back to front while on the move, which makes accessing my gear a lot easier than taking it off.  I can also switch shoulders while on the move, which helps with comfort.

Edited by Carlos Danger
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