A bit of soul searching with the S, M, and Pentax 645D - help needed!!

[albertknappmd]

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The best solution is to RENT an S system for a few days and shoot, shoot, shoot... See what YOU think about it. You can get an S (006) relatively cheap (!!!) these days but RENT first. I have both systems and there si an amzing difference. However, the S is much heavier and not stealthy at all. That being said, I use the S 80% of the time including street photography with the 100mm lens that is quite small and unobtrusive.

Albert     

[2wk]

It is funny, I just saw your post over at the Pentax forums...since I have been eyeballing a 645z for quite a while and am about to purchase a new camera system. From the images you have posted, it looks to me like it is just a question of post processing. I like your stuff btw! What lenses have you been using on the Pentax? 

 

The cropped in close up doesn't look like "Leica glow" to me, it just looks out of focus or slight motion blur. The S system is attractive, but it just seems to rich for me at this point. Sure you can get a 006 for $5000-6000 but the lens prices are outrageous. And then some have been having AF issues...which would piss me off extremely after such a huge purchase. Even the Contax adapter (which I would consider) is more expensive then all of the Pentax lenses I would want. And I have compared the 2 systems. For portraits I am not seeing such a huge difference in the way the lenses render. Perhaps the Pentax lenses are not going to be as sharp in the corners...it doesn't matter to me. The iso abilities of the 645z do matter since a lot of the stuff I shoot may require it. But with your use of on camera flash, this may not matter as much.

[bilbrown]

It is funny, I just saw your post over at the Pentax forums...since I have been eyeballing a 645z for quite a while and am about to purchase a new camera system. From the images you have posted, it looks to me like it is just a question of post processing. I like your stuff btw! What lenses have you been using on the Pentax? 

 

The cropped in close up doesn't look like "Leica glow" to me, it just looks out of focus or slight motion blur. The S system is attractive, but it just seems to rich for me at this point. Sure you can get a 006 for $5000-6000 but the lens prices are outrageous. And then some have been having AF issues...which would piss me off extremely after such a huge purchase. Even the Contax adapter (which I would consider) is more expensive then all of the Pentax lenses I would want. And I have compared the 2 systems. For portraits I am not seeing such a huge difference in the way the lenses render. Perhaps the Pentax lenses are not going to be as sharp in the corners...it doesn't matter to me. The iso abilities of the 645z do matter since a lot of the stuff I shoot may require it. But with your use of on camera flash, this may not matter as much.

 

 

I only have the 55mm for the Pentax so far, I am getting a Fotix adapter for my Hassy glass (Zeiss 80, etc) likely Friday.

 

Yeah, it the Leica S image was so far away... but the thing is I LIKE that blur, and how it is rendered on the CCD. 

 

To be honest I haven't shot the Z or S nearly enough to really get a feel for the renders. If I could have BOTH I would be very happy I think. I think they are really different tools, just as much as some people keep a D800E and a M240, or an A7R, etc. Different.

 

It's interesting, clients and folks tend to be drawn to the CMOS sensor, or my film renders. I don't really know yet. The dynamic range is nice.

NO ONE I WORK WITH LIKED ANY OF THE SONY IMAGES I HAVE SHOT, NOT ONE. The M's win HANDS DOWN. This is on same shots, same lighting, same functions.

 

Yes.

 

It MAY be a post-processing issue, but when I shot the S I had VERY LITTLE post processing.

In fact on the M240 and M8 I have (I'm sure it would be even better on the M9, but I don't have one) I often just send the JPG files out AS IS,

they need very little processing for MOST of what I do... but fashion is another story.

 

Fashion photography TYPICALLY has these big houses for retouching that practically all of the magazines that you see on the newsstands within a certain genre use.

We lose a lot of control, because we can send PSDs or flattened TIFs but they need HEAVY editing even after our edits for each magazine to get the look that it has consistently.

 

Large format files make retouchers very happy. DR makes retouchers very happy.

 

At the end of the day, it's what makes us SHOOT that is the bottom line - after we get something that is USABLE.

 

And the PENTAX 545Z is kind of intimidating as opposed to the S. Not as sleek.

 

 

But who is to say what is the better tool for the long haul...

hell I still use my 10 year old M8, DAILY.

[bilbrown]

The best solution is to RENT an S system for a few days and shoot, shoot, shoot... See what YOU think about it. You can get an S (006) relatively cheap (!!!) these days but RENT first. I have both systems and there si an amzing difference. However, the S is much heavier and not stealthy at all. That being said, I use the S 80% of the time including street photography with the 100mm lens that is quite small and unobtrusive.

Albert     

 

 

The Leica store in LA used to rent the S, and I have rented it before for shoots a year or so ago. But they don't now.

 

They barely have a 007 in stock, there is a waiting list. And the 006 or SE they have are on lock down.

 

So, no. In LA, I haven't found a sole to rent one. Not even Samy's

[Guest]

Ditch LA ... Rancho Mirage has a wealth of S bodies and lenses ... 

 

I would pick one and a used lens ... at their used prices you will lose very little if you move to something else.

 

Sean at Camera West has been my source for 15 years ... they own Leica Store SF CW Walnut Creek and CW Rancho Mirage ... huge inventory 

and have been great to work with ....

 

http://www.camerawest.com/categories/usedProducts/14315/

 

 

With your style the S or S 006 will work ... CMOS and high ISO probably not necessary.

 

Bob

[bilbrown]

Well said! I was going to get pompous and quote:

 

One is Light

Two is Composition

Three is Everything Else

(I don't know where I heard that, but it should be at the top of any discussion of camera gear)

 

On the other hand, If you're an amateur (like me), there is a different version (this one is mine)

 

Shots I've missed because of:

Insufficient resolution - 0.5%

Insufficient DR - 1%

Missed focus - 20%

Insufficient talent/vision - 70%

Sitting in front of computer - 95%

 

(There's overlap)

 

The point being that anything that improves the last two is MUCH more valuable than the first two.

 

Best,

 

Matt

 

 

 

Ha, that last part is GREAT!!

 

Yeah, I'm finally getting away from the computer and by personal take on things is becoming more refined, so now it;'s just having the tool that realizes it with me.

That has all of the former (decent DR, excellent resolution, and since I tend to manually focus, I don't know how much the AF really matters!!)

[bilbrown]

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Ditch LA ... Rancho Mirage has a wealth of S bodies and lenses ... 

 

I would pick one and a used lens ... at their used prices you will lose very little if you move to something else.

 

Sean at Camera West has been my source for 15 years ... they own Leica Store SF CW Walnut Creek and CW Rancho Mirage ... huge inventory 

and have been great to work with ....

 

http://www.camerawest.com/categories/usedProducts/14315/

 

 

With your style the S or S 006 will work ... CMOS and high ISO probably not necessary.

 

Bob

 

 

 

I've talked to them before! Missed a chance on a 006 with less than 500 clicks.

 

Nope, don't give a shit (currently) about anything above say 400-800 ISO. Everything is lit some way or another.

 

 

(ha, and I may someday "ditch LA" not done here yet!!)

[bilbrown]

Just a side note, MAN some the people over at the Pentaz forums REALLY hate Leica...

 

This guy said, "lol. Keep drink the Leica cool aide. Your 17 years haven't taught you much and I highly doubt there is much truth in those 17 years true because of everything you're saying. It's like listening to someone who's trying to use industry lingo for the first time but doesn't really grasp the meanings. Just get the Leica S if that's what you want so much. You obviously won't be happy until you have a dentist camera. The only magnum photographers left shooting Leica professionally were given cameras by Leica. This may have changed with the 240 but This ain't the 1980s generally. Just look at the cameras that captured the 2016 world press awards. There is a 645z on there, even an RX100, but noooo Leicas. But we're not talking about photo journalism. Neither was your OP about photojournalism. It's about commercial fashion photography, at which you seem pretty lost."

Read more at:  http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/315304-645z-vs-leica-s-look-3.html#ixzz41rZpe5A1

[Guest]

I've talked to them before! Missed a chance on a 006 with less than 500 clicks.

 

 

 

The SE 006 with 300 clicks is still listed on their website.

 

Bob

[John McMaster]

Just a side note, MAN some the people over at the Pentaz forums REALLY hate Leica...

 

Most non-users do, I rarely shot 35mm (Hasselblad user) and wondered what the fuss was about. Also owned Canon FD/Nikon MF and AF/Contax G/Olympus OM/sheet film and used almost everything going in medium format. When I got my first Leica (after Nikon APS-C) it was a revelation, now they are the only system(s) (M, R and S) that I use....

 

john

 

john

[EoinC]

Just a side note, MAN some the people over at the Pentaz forums REALLY hate Leica...

 

This guy said, "lol. Keep drink the Leica cool aide. Your 17 years haven't taught you much and I highly doubt there is much truth in those 17 years true because of everything you're saying. It's like listening to someone who's trying to use industry lingo for the first time but doesn't really grasp the meanings. Just get the Leica S if that's what you want so much. You obviously won't be happy until you have a dentist camera. The only magnum photographers left shooting Leica professionally were given cameras by Leica. This may have changed with the 240 but This ain't the 1980s generally. Just look at the cameras that captured the 2016 world press awards. There is a 645z on there, even an RX100, but noooo Leicas. But we're not talking about photo journalism. Neither was your OP about photojournalism. It's about commercial fashion photography, at which you seem pretty lost."

Read more at:  http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/315304-645z-vs-leica-s-look-3.html#ixzz41rZpe5A1

That's not a Pentax thing, it's an internet thing. Similar xenophobe rants are made on nearly every forum I've ever dipped into, and are to be expected whenever there are single-commonality factors joining groups of people together, and then someone suggests something different. In normal face-to-face life, we tend to dissociate from those who disagree with our perspective. On the internet, the obverse is often so. Lord of the Flies stuff...