leicaphilia Posted February 26, 2016 Share #41 Posted February 26, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Kent, keep the M3 and buy a Hexar Rf for rhose times when you need to be certain you get a well-exposed shot. Problem solved! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Hi leicaphilia, Take a look here M3 to MP. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Fotoklaus Posted February 26, 2016 Share #42 Posted February 26, 2016 Zinc casting worked out less versatile and more expensive than the milled Brass of the MP and M7 so we ended up with the best of all worlds. I see that Leica have now gone over to Aluminium for the top plate their latest digital M model. It depends on the number of units you have to make. I don't know how much M7/ MP/ MA are made in a year nowadays but I guess they might be less than M6 made in a month back in the days... So casting is too expensive only for a few cameras made and to mill it out of a solid piece of metal is cheaper per unit. Anyway... don't mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted February 26, 2016 Share #43 Posted February 26, 2016 I had a BP finish M240 for a year. Now I have a BC M246 and a Ti (which I think is a variant of silver chrome) M6. I notice no difference in grip between them. Along the way I also spent time with a silver chrome MP and M-A. Again, no difference in grip. If you want to talk aesthetics, I have very strong preferences when it comes to these finishes. But in terms of one being more or less secure to hold vs. the rest? Not at all. The biggest difference I noticed is that the black cameras get warm in the sun faster and retain that heat for a longer time. Back to the OP's dilemma, I would say get a dedicated meter or use your iPhone until you're comfortable eyeballing it. Film has a lot more latitude than digital. I have two MP's here at my fingertips. One is black paint, one is silver chrome. Both are in very good condition. There is a world of difference in the grip on the cameras. The silver chrome has a metallic texture, just like the rear side of an iPhone (the aluminium) whereas the black paint model is of course pure thick paint which feels like the front side (the glass side) of an iPhone. Take your finger and sweep it across glass and then sweep it across brushed metal - that's basically the difference in grip. Quite noticeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #44 Posted February 26, 2016 I think that in-camera light meters are really over-rated and over and mis-used. The determination of middle gray on a small spot within a frame hardly tells you anything and is obtrusive rather than conducive to your artistic expression. Whatever you do, id suggest getting a little hand held light meter and work on that skill. It really isnt that hard to get a handle on and it is extremely rewarding Best of luck, Adam Miller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalhairs Posted February 26, 2016 Share #45 Posted February 26, 2016 I prefer in-camera meters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted February 26, 2016 Share #46 Posted February 26, 2016 A handheld meter can be just as misleading if not well understood, just as in-camera meters. The best metering method while on the street is to meter the ground on which you are standing at the moment of the shot. Overexpose or underexpose by 1 stop if the subject is in a different light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #47 Posted February 26, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) A handheld meter can be just as misleading if not well understood, just as in-camera meters. The best metering method while on the street is to meter the ground on which you are standing at the moment of the shot. Overexpose or underexpose by 1 stop if the subject is in a different light. Right, but if you understand it well, it is far superior. That's my point. Focus energy on understanding light. Then apply that with proper light meter reading techniques. In cases in which incident meter reading is more appropriate (such as random street situations), your approach is a common approach, but it is a short cut and is one that I really don't use. I will typically take an incident meter reading of the brighting sunlit point where I am and then adjust for the different EVs around me caused by shadows, etc. That will typically involve opening up at least one stop and in many cases more than one stop - but all based on the general condition and applying my own learned understanding of light. This doesn't take much more time and I get better results... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted February 26, 2016 Share #48 Posted February 26, 2016 Right, but if you understand it well, it is far superior. That's my point. Focus energy on understanding light. Then apply that with proper light meter reading techniques. In cases in which incident meter reading is more appropriate (such as random street situations), your approach is a common approach, but it is a short cut and is one that I really don't use. I will typically take an incident meter reading of the brighting sunlit point where I am and then adjust for the different EVs around me caused by shadows, etc. That will typically involve opening up at least one stop and in many cases more than one stop - but all based on the general condition and applying my own learned understanding of light. This doesn't take much more time and I get better results... There is not much difference between 1/60@5.6 and 1/60@5.6, really. It's all in understanding how to meter, no matter which meter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 26, 2016 Share #49 Posted February 26, 2016 There is not much difference between 1/60@5.6 and 1/60@5.6, really. ... Now you say it; I've never noticed before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted February 26, 2016 Share #50 Posted February 26, 2016 Now you say it; I've never noticed before. Me neither. But a handheld meter is supposedly "far superior"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #51 Posted February 26, 2016 There is not much difference between 1/60@5.6 and 1/60@5.6, really. It's all in understanding how to meter, no matter which meter. right, no difference at all b/n 1/60 @ f5.6 and 1/60 @ f5.6 And I agree about the "understanding" part. It's just that using a spot meter for these situations is not the best way to get the most out of your artistic expression... Here are some results that would be achieve by luck by simply using a spot meter... Sure, you can get these results by using a spot meter coupled with a good understanding of light such that you know what adjustments to make. But IMHO in many (not all) cases it is like writing with a pen with the non-dominant hand... Just my opinion. I understand and respect yours... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256333-m3-to-mp/?do=findComment&comment=2997501'>More sharing options...
NB23 Posted February 26, 2016 Share #52 Posted February 26, 2016 I came up with similar results with my M7 in NYC, and I relied (and agreed) totally on its dumb meter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #53 Posted February 26, 2016 some other examples of how a good understanding of light and confirmatory use of a light meter (with my preference being an incident meter for this type of shooting) can facilitate artistic expression... All these shots from a Leica with no meter... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256333-m3-to-mp/?do=findComment&comment=2997505'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #54 Posted February 26, 2016 I came up with similar results with my M7 in NYC, and I relied (and agreed) totally on its dumb meter. I totally ignore the meter in my M7; it is not good for anything. The only good thing about the camera is its ability to use HSS. I believe that in-camera meters were introduced by Leica with the M5 in order to play to the growing "point & shoot" market who needed a crutch b/c they didn't take the time to learn light... (clarification: not suggesting that Leica invented in-camera meters; just suggesting a context in which they added them to their M cameras)... And this is not about who is a better photographer; it is all about me being on my soap box about how people need to take the time to understand light and exposure values and not think that they NEED an in-camera meter... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 26, 2016 Share #55 Posted February 26, 2016 some other examples of how a good understanding of light and confirmatory use of a light meter (with my preference being an incident meter for this type of shooting) can facilitate artistic expression... All these shots from a Leica with no meter... I don't think I've seen this one before, Adam. Terrific photograph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted February 26, 2016 Share #56 Posted February 26, 2016 I don't know for you but pics 2, 3 and 4 are underexposed by at least one stop. Contre-jour and silhouettes are fun to photograph but it's easy to fall in the underexposure trap. I'm a bit amazed since an in-camera meter will underexpose such scenes and it's a must to overexpose manually by at least one stop. An incident meter would have exposed it normally. I don't know why your incident meter read the light in such a way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #57 Posted February 26, 2016 I don't know for you but pics 2, 3 and 4 are underexposed by at least one stop. Contre-jour and silhouettes are fun to photograph but it's easy to fall in the underexposure trap. I'm a bit amazed since an in-camera meter will underexpose such scenes and it's a must to overexpose manually by at least one stop. An incident meter would have exposed it normally. I don't know why your incident meter read the light in such a way. 2,3 and 4 are a plays on shadows and highlights. They are part of my latest winter series along the lines of "Anonymous New Yorkers," the point of which is that we live in the shadows during the winter time and for the most part only see people's shadows and highlight-laced outlines What I want to be properly and not properly exposed is all based on my own deliberate artistic rendition of how I want the scene to look. I didn't rely on my meter for the final decision, which is my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalhairs Posted February 26, 2016 Share #58 Posted February 26, 2016 "Artistic expression" aside, people ought to do what works best for them. If you think your shots are more artistically expressive because you metered the light with an incident meter and your knowledge of light, good for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #59 Posted February 26, 2016 I don't think I've seen this one before, Adam. Terrific photograph. Thanks a lot, Ian. Here are some more... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256333-m3-to-mp/?do=findComment&comment=2997536'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted February 26, 2016 Share #60 Posted February 26, 2016 "Artistic expression" aside, people ought to do what works best for them. If you think your shots are more artistically expressive because you metered the light with an incident meter and your knowledge of light, good for you. Agreed, the main point is that the desired end result is reached... I am simply stating my own belief as to the most efficient and enjoyable means to the end... But you are totally, right....horses for horses all the way... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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