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Zeiss lenses on M8


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I am absolutely stunned by the quality produced by the Zeiss 21 and 25mm lenses on my M8 compared to my manual-focus Nikon lenses on my D200.

 

My question is - does anyone know if the Zeiss ZF lenses for Nikon are optically the same as those for the Lecia mount?

 

If they are - I need some of them!

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They should be of the same quality, but I guess they are different designs because they're SLR and RF lenses.

The difference you see, may be because of the weaker AA filter in the M8.

Sean Reid has tried Zeiss lenses on both Nikon and the M8.

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Hello David!

I am absolutely stunned by the quality produced by the Zeiss 21 and 25mm lenses on my M8 compared to my manual-focus Nikon lenses on my D200.

 

My question is - does anyone know if the Zeiss ZF lenses for Nikon are optically the same as those for the Lecia mount?

 

ZM lenses are Biogon type, ZF lenses are Distagon type. Quite different but the result should be almost the same - but only in the same condition.

 

DSLRs usually have AA-filters which work against the high contrast and resolution of the ZM and ZF type of lenses.

 

Leica M8 has no AA-filter at all (and a thinner IR cut filter too) so the conditions for the two lens types is also quite different.

 

DSLRs will not so much benefit from Zeiss lenses than film type cameras or M8.

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Thanks very much both of you for the advice. You might have well saved my a small fortune. So before I start thowing out my Nikon lenses, I think I will test my Nikon 20mm f2.8 against the Zeiss 25mm on film first.

 

I hear that some D200 users remove the AA filter by accident when trying to clean the sensor - maybe that's not such a bad idea...

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They should be of the same quality, but I guess they are different designs because they're SLR and RF lenses.

The difference you see, may be because of the weaker AA filter in the M8.

Sean Reid has tried Zeiss lenses on both Nikon and the M8.

 

That's right. The lenses aren't really identical but even if they were, the M8 is a different camera and its lack of AA filter (among other things) allows it to make files that I've not seen by anything outside of the DMR.

 

But...are Zeiss lenses worth considering for a D200? Absolutely. My test of the ZF 50 is on the site and I will be reviewing others.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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David, I'm not surprised. I had a D200 and some of the older manual focus lenses and they were crap on the D200. Someone on one of the Nikon forums said there is a technical reason for this happening although I cannot remember the terminology. I think it makes sense that a digital format would place different demands on lens design although most lenses seem to be ok with digital.

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I have a Japanese magazine with a comparison of the Zeiss lenses to the Nikkor lenses, and the Zeiss lenses definitely outperform the Nikkor's. FWIW, there is a company in the US that will "hot rod" a D200 by removing the AA filter. I'm thinking about having mine done. Here's the link:

 

http://www.maxmax.com/

 

Bill

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Interesting web page referenced above on the removal of the AA filter in DSLRs to improve clarity.

 

Could it be that history will come to regard the M8 as starting a revolutionary change in how digital filters are configured rather than as the digital step-child of a very fine line of film cameras?

 

If so, then, perhaps, we should all view our M8 purchases with a different perspective.

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JLM here can modify the Zeiss mounting rings to add the wells for self coding. I've successfully coded my Zeiss 21/28/50 lenses using the Sharpie methods - although I do have to re-apply regularly. I'm due to send my Zeiss 28 ring off for modification - perhaps someone else here who has had their's modified can give you feedback on it.

 

The 15mm can be similarly hand coded to represent the WATE and you can then set it to 16mm for correction. I don't have one so I can't tell you how well that works but it works well with my CV 15mm with JLM LTM ring.

 

As regards the Zeiss ZF lenses, I can only attest to the capabilities of the 25/2.8 which is superb on my D2X. It's definitely exhibits the Zeiss micro-contrast attributes and it is a joy to use as a MF lens compared to the Nikon AF lenses. I used to use the 28/1.4 which would back-focus terribly (although a great lens). I've found that there's significantly less CA with my Zeiss 25 vs the Nikon 28/1.4, 35/2. I'm tempted to try out the other ZF lenses after my experience with the 25/2.8.

 

If you want to get the best out of the ZF lenses on a Nikon DSLR then I'd definitely recommend switching your focus screens to something like Katz Eyes. I have these in both of my D2X's and they are incredibly bright plus have the traditional split circle focus guides for MF work. Highly recommended if you want to accurately focus manually.

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The zeiss lenses can be coded. some of them the 25 and the 21 come with mounts that bring up the wrong frame lines. You must get another mount form zeiss. Zeiss will sell the mount that tbrings up the 35 and 24 frame lines. Once I got that I sent it to John Milch who machined the 6 bit code. To change the mount you need a repair person sho can heat the screws so they do not brake when being removed- this happened to me- the screws are glued with locktite or something like that. Dan Goldberg is changing my mount as I write this . It is a pain but you end up with lenses in the same legue with leicas at half the price of a used lice lens, or less, I got my 25 and 21 zeiss lenses used for under 2 grand. a 24 leica used or 21 used goes for around $2200.

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The zeiss lenses can be coded. some of them the 25 and the 21 come with mounts that bring up the wrong frame lines. You must get another mount form zeiss. Zeiss will sell the mount that tbrings up the 35 and 24 frame lines. Once I got that I sent it to John Milch who machined the 6 bit code. To change the mount you need a repair person sho can heat the screws so they do not brake when being removed- this happened to me- the screws are glued with locktite or something like that.

 

What's interesting is that my Zeiss 21 ring came off without any effort, heating or other issues. I was expecting it to be a difficult process but a decent set of jewelers screwdrivers were all I needed and it pop'd off relatively easily with only a little bit of effort to unscrew. Similarly, reassembly with the 28 ring was simple too. Maybe they don't bond up all of the lenses coming out of Zeiss? I was expecting much more of an effort to do this.

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Thank you all for your info. Now I understand the mount change reason - frame line.

 

The reason I popped this question because I really love the Zeiss color and Zeiss look back from my Hassy and Contax days. Flare control is another big thing with Zeiss T* coating Putting Zeiss glasses on M8 is like giving Zeiss a 2nd life. Great quality with great price.

 

Seeing all (most of the hi-end) Leica M lenses out of stock proves Leica has given their M lenses a new lifespan as well.

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Thank you all for your info. Now I understand the mount change reason - frame line.

 

More than frame line, the M8 won't correctly code the lens unless BOTH the code and frame lines match the equivalent Leica lens. It's not enough just to code the lens.

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What's interesting is that my Zeiss 21 ring came off without any effort, heating or other issues. I was expecting it to be a difficult process but a decent set of jewelers screwdrivers were all I needed and it pop'd off relatively easily with only a little bit of effort to unscrew. Similarly, reassembly with the 28 ring was simple too. Maybe they don't bond up all of the lenses coming out of Zeiss? I was expecting much more of an effort to do this.

 

You're a lucky man.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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David, I'm not surprised. I had a D200 and some of the older manual focus lenses and they were crap on the D200. Someone on one of the Nikon forums said there is a technical reason for this happening although I cannot remember the terminology. I think it makes sense that a digital format would place different demands on lens design although most lenses seem to be ok with digital.

 

The AA filter is quite strong on the D200 in comparison to other DSLRs but this is quite easily overcome with USM or in camera sharpening to give incredibly sharp images with good lenses.

 

In short out-of-camera comparisons for digital cameras (even within the nikon range) are somewhat meaningless.

 

You can remove the AA filter - but to my knowledge on most DSLRs the AA and IR filter are combined so you are fundamentally altering the performance of the camera

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