alan mcfall Posted September 25, 2015 Share #1  Posted September 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! IMG_0009.pdf  Is anyone familiar with the history of the rifle hunting scope offered by Leitz in the early 1950's? See attached images of my scope.  Not to be confused with the much later sport optics. Laney mentions in his book that a factory brochure dated Oct. 1954 listed two rifle scope offerings, but I have not seen other specific evidence. One rumor on the web was that Ernst Leitz II was a big game hunter and he ordered that such an item be produced for his use. It is clearly marked Wetzlar and thus would not seem to associated with Midland. Some of the features seem to be similar to Hensholdt rifle scopes available after the war, but there are also many other different features. Perhaps Hensholdt supplied these per Leitz design. If the number on mine is a serial #2772, and the starting number was 1000, then a large quantity were made, but they are rarely seen. Any information would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! IMG_0009.pdf  Is anyone familiar with the history of the rifle hunting scope offered by Leitz in the early 1950's? See attached images of my scope.  Not to be confused with the much later sport optics. Laney mentions in his book that a factory brochure dated Oct. 1954 listed two rifle scope offerings, but I have not seen other specific evidence. One rumor on the web was that Ernst Leitz II was a big game hunter and he ordered that such an item be produced for his use. It is clearly marked Wetzlar and thus would not seem to associated with Midland. Some of the features seem to be similar to Hensholdt rifle scopes available after the war, but there are also many other different features. Perhaps Hensholdt supplied these per Leitz design. If the number on mine is a serial #2772, and the starting number was 1000, then a large quantity were made, but they are rarely seen. Any information would be appreciated. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250534-leica-rifle-scope-1954/?do=findComment&comment=2894232'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 Hi alan mcfall, Take a look here Leica Rifle Scope, 1954. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
scsambrook Posted October 1, 2015 Share #2  Posted October 1, 2015 I'm no expert but the "ears" on the elevation knob assembly remind me very much of something else from the mid 1950s. . . Nickel or Hertel & Reuss maybe? Nickel was (still is?) located not very far from Wetzlar in Marburg.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted October 1, 2015 Share #3 Â Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) The secondary rail below the eyepiece or front (not clear) should give some clue as to how it was to be mounted and therefore what it was to be mounted upon. Might be worth some research - you will probably find some dealers who specialise in older scopes so they might be worth contacting. Is the knurled section a focus ring (unusual if so) and what is the reticle like? Whilst it looks like a rifle scope could it have had any other application (an aiming or approximation aiming system)? Edited October 1, 2015 by pgk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted October 1, 2015 Share #4 Â Posted October 1, 2015 I think the "secondary", i.e front, rail indicates it was meant to fit onto a "quck detachable" claw mount set on a sporting rifle. It and the longer rail under the main tube would engage with matching mounts fitted to the barrel and action. Unless it was on a double rifle when both mounts would have been on the barrel rib. Alan probably knows all about that already! Â PGK raises an interesting point in asking if the knurled ring is a focusing eyepiece. If it is part of a rotating eyepiece and not just a locking collar for the typical 1940s/50s focusing adjustment, then that suggests the scope might be later than the early 1950s. On the other hand, if it has no windage adjustment, that might suggest it's even pre-war ! Â Looking at the close-up photo, there seems to be three independent knurled rings on the top on the scope body - I can understand two (one to adjust, one to lock) but wonder what the third one does. Â This is a really interesting piece of kit - I was an avid reader of shooting books and magazines back in the late 50s and 60s and have never seen any refeence to a Leitz riflescope. Nor, so far as I know, did Leitz make them before or during WWII. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted October 2, 2015 Share #5  Posted October 2, 2015 The 2 rails one on the front bell and the bottom rail do attach to an intergrated rail on the rifle action and barrel. It was very popular on pre and post war civilian Mausers. The knurled ring on the eyepiece is to remove parralex, the knurled ring on the top is for elevation. Their probably is a knob on the other side for windage. Leitz made scopes pre war for the active european hunters and during the war for their services. Very little info is to be found on the stuff from the war. Saw many at Wright Paterson AFB in photos when a lot of stuff was dumped their after WW2. The current scopes are good as modern technology can make then. The old one have a mystery about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share #6  Posted October 3, 2015 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Great comments, thanks. Attached is a copy of the 1954 Leitz Archive brochure showing the scope mounted on what looks like a double rifle. The knurled ring at the eyepiece is indeed for focusing, has a plus/minus scale. There is only one set of knobs at the top mid-section and not any at the side 90 degrees. It seems there are two concentric knobs, the upper definitely adjusts elevation, the lower must be for windage, but I am not certain. There is a coin sized slot in the screw atop these two knobs, I suspose so that elevation can be adjusted with gloves on. The reticle consists of three black lines, two horizontal and the third from the bottom to the center. This is a 6 x 42 scope, at least that is what is engraved. It would be interesting to know how many were made and if Leitz was the sole manufacturer or if others were involved. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Great comments, thanks. Attached is a copy of the 1954 Leitz Archive brochure showing the scope mounted on what looks like a double rifle. The knurled ring at the eyepiece is indeed for focusing, has a plus/minus scale. There is only one set of knobs at the top mid-section and not any at the side 90 degrees. It seems there are two concentric knobs, the upper definitely adjusts elevation, the lower must be for windage, but I am not certain. There is a coin sized slot in the screw atop these two knobs, I suspose so that elevation can be adjusted with gloves on. The reticle consists of three black lines, two horizontal and the third from the bottom to the center. This is a 6 x 42 scope, at least that is what is engraved. It would be interesting to know how many were made and if Leitz was the sole manufacturer or if others were involved. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250534-leica-rifle-scope-1954/?do=findComment&comment=2898106'>More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted October 3, 2015 Share #7 Â Posted October 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Forgive the silly question but . . . have you yet asked Messrs Leica if they have anything more to tell you? Â I don't recall seeing another make of scope with the 'triple' top adustment, although the appearance of the assembly still reminds me of something else. When you move the knobs, does the reticle move up/down and left/right as you look through the scope? Â Â Fascinating piece of kit - do please keep us updated as you learn more about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share #8  Posted February 9, 2018 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  UPDATE: Above is a new photo of my now two early Leitz rifle scopes. I added a 4 x 28 scope to the previous posted 6 x 42. I have also obtained from Leica sport optic headquarters, a brochure dated October 1954. First some text and comments:   Response from Leica These riflescopes were only shortly manufactured about 1954 in very small quantities.In our archive, there is no more detailed information than just these two PDF files. Comments from other websites  In 1950 Leica based in Wetzler, Germany introduced first three very durable and resilient rifle scopes and continued to manufacture binoculars and spotting scopes until 2010 when they set a new benchmark by re-entering into riflescope production with ER series. In 2013 Leica Sports Optics made another revolution by introducing range finding binoculars with innovative ballistic program.  Leica’s new riflescope line consists of two models, a 2.5X-10X-42mm and a 3.5X-14X-42mm. This new line represents Leica’s third offering of riflescopes. The first series was introduced in the 1950s at the behest of Dr. Ernst Leitz, an avid hunter who was then head of the family that started Leitz Camera (Lei-ca, get it?). The second series made a brief appearance in the United States as a joint venture between Leupold of Oregon and Leica in the 1990s, but the line was discontinued. 1954 Leica introduced first riflescopes in the early 1950s. The three models that were available at that time offered Leitz feature that offered reticle focusing with group of lenses inside the tube and internal focusing were rugged and resistant to dust and moisture. Riflescopes ceased production after a few years by focusing on development of binoculars and spotting scopes Also in the 1950s, for the very first time, Leica added three riflescopes to the product range. These models were characterised by a particular Leitz feature: reticle focusing was performed by a group of lenses inside the tube instead of the usual adjustment of the entire eyepiece.Here, the principle of true internal focusing was combined with the well-known advantages of ruggedness and resistance to dust and moisture.  Now the brochure:   A rough translation using Google Translate, of some sections follows:TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION Optics Optical correction, resolving power and brightness meet highest requirements. Disturbing stray light due to perfect dimming is avoided. All free lens surfaces inside the rifle scope are provided with LEITZ anti-reflective coating. sdarfstellen. By rotating the gerande th eyepiece (up to half a turn), an optical system is moved inside the tube and thus adjusted to best visual acuity. This novel attitude brings two big advantages To adjust the height of the reticle is a knurled ring 2, which is fixed by a larger, underlying clamping ring; An unintentional loss of sight is therefore impossible. over the shotgun 2 is the 4, which is the stroke with the fixed index mark of the saddle piece. (For this loosen round-head screw 3 with a coin The height adjustment is seated in a saddle , which is also waterproof and dust-proof on the tube and has no protruding parts such as scrapes, etc., thus providing maximum safety against unintentional adjustment simple and safe The mounting rail is an integral part of the assembly in keeping the optical parts of the pipe.  I welcome any additional translation that is important to understanding. From this I conclude that Leitz made these scopes in-house starting in 1954, and marketed them for only a few years. .Optics were coated. The scopes use a "rail" mount system common in Europe. My first photo shows the quick attachment from the scope to the rifle. The rail is 14mm and 10mm respectively. Now I need to find the third scope, 4 x 36. Thanks to all of those who are interested in the brief saga of Leitz rifle optics. If anyone wants a 1mb, suitable for printing, email of the brochure as received from Leitz, please direct email me.       Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  UPDATE: Above is a new photo of my now two early Leitz rifle scopes. I added a 4 x 28 scope to the previous posted 6 x 42. I have also obtained from Leica sport optic headquarters, a brochure dated October 1954. First some text and comments:   Response from Leica These riflescopes were only shortly manufactured about 1954 in very small quantities. In our archive, there is no more detailed information than just these two PDF files. Comments from other websites  In 1950 Leica based in Wetzler, Germany introduced first three very durable and resilient rifle scopes and continued to manufacture binoculars and spotting scopes until 2010 when they set a new benchmark by re-entering into riflescope production with ER series. In 2013 Leica Sports Optics made another revolution by introducing range finding binoculars with innovative ballistic program.  Leica’s new riflescope line consists of two models, a 2.5X-10X-42mm and a 3.5X-14X-42mm. This new line represents Leica’s third offering of riflescopes. The first series was introduced in the 1950s at the behest of Dr. Ernst Leitz, an avid hunter who was then head of the family that started Leitz Camera (Lei-ca, get it?). The second series made a brief appearance in the United States as a joint venture between Leupold of Oregon and Leica in the 1990s, but the line was discontinued. 1954 Leica introduced first riflescopes in the early 1950s. The three models that were available at that time offered Leitz feature that offered reticle focusing with group of lenses inside the tube and internal focusing were rugged and resistant to dust and moisture. Riflescopes ceased production after a few years by focusing on development of binoculars and spotting scopes Also in the 1950s, for the very first time, Leica added three riflescopes to the product range. These models were characterised by a particular Leitz feature: reticle focusing was performed by a group of lenses inside the tube instead of the usual adjustment of the entire eyepiece.Here, the principle of true internal focusing was combined with the well-known advantages of ruggedness and resistance to dust and moisture.  Now the brochure:   A rough translation using Google Translate, of some sections follows:TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION Optics Optical correction, resolving power and brightness meet highest requirements. Disturbing stray light due to perfect dimming is avoided. All free lens surfaces inside the rifle scope are provided with LEITZ anti-reflective coating. sdarfstellen. By rotating the gerande th eyepiece (up to half a turn), an optical system is moved inside the tube and thus adjusted to best visual acuity. This novel attitude brings two big advantages To adjust the height of the reticle is a knurled ring 2, which is fixed by a larger, underlying clamping ring; An unintentional loss of sight is therefore impossible. over the shotgun 2 is the 4, which is the stroke with the fixed index mark of the saddle piece. (For this loosen round-head screw 3 with a coin The height adjustment is seated in a saddle , which is also waterproof and dust-proof on the tube and has no protruding parts such as scrapes, etc., thus providing maximum safety against unintentional adjustment simple and safe The mounting rail is an integral part of the assembly in keeping the optical parts of the pipe.  I welcome any additional translation that is important to understanding. From this I conclude that Leitz made these scopes in-house starting in 1954, and marketed them for only a few years. .Optics were coated. The scopes use a "rail" mount system common in Europe. My first photo shows the quick attachment from the scope to the rifle. The rail is 14mm and 10mm respectively. Now I need to find the third scope, 4 x 36. Thanks to all of those who are interested in the brief saga of Leitz rifle optics. If anyone wants a 1mb, suitable for printing, email of the brochure as received from Leitz, please direct email me.       ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250534-leica-rifle-scope-1954/?do=findComment&comment=3458076'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share #9  Posted November 15, 2022 Thanks to a wonderful ebayer in Santo Stefano belbo, Italy; I have added a third Leica rifle scope from the early 1950's to my collection. Also, thanks to all those whose posts above have helped define these Leitz Wetzlar products that are not frequently encountered. If anyone has any new information, please post. This latest acquisition has mounts for the Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250534-leica-rifle-scope-1954/?do=findComment&comment=4566212'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted November 16, 2022 Share #10  Posted November 16, 2022 It's fun as You as an US Citizen collect Leitz scopes and I from Europe collect US Unertl scope 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d30gaijin Posted November 17, 2022 Share #11 Â Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) In typical German fashion often the right/left adjustment was done via the external mounting rail system rather than the turrets we American are most used to. Â Edited November 17, 2022 by d30gaijin Clarification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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