Maximum useable ISO S2/006/007

[jip]

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Hello,

 

I am wondering about the maximum useable ISO on the S2/006/007

 

I have read a article on reddotforums but this was in clear daylight, where I wouldn't use ISO 1250/1600 anyway.

 

What is the best way to get the most out of the files in lowlight situations? 

 

 

[Manolo Laguillo]

I think it's better to shoot at let's say 800 ISO and give the picture +1 stop with Lightroom,

then to shoot straight at 1600 ISO.

[jip]

Thanks, very useful!

[Jeff S]

Another thread posted earlier...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249496-usable-iso-on-006/?do=findComment&comment=2879578

 

Jeff

[peterv]

I agree with Manolo, stay away if you can from 1250/1600, better to use 640/800 and if needed underexpose one stop to later slide one stop to the right in Lr. 

 

That said, I've used 1250 ISO on my S2-P while using flash with the dragging the shutter technique and the files looked quite good.

[Willy ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°]

I only have had the pleasure of owning my S2 for about a week. One thing I noticed is that the S series is damn light hungry. Tried a variety of settings and having been "spoiled" after 25 years of high-end Nikon equipment, I found myself settling to shoot my S2 at a max of 640 ISO. Pushing in Bridge during post production yields OK results. It's the darned WB that gives me acida ! !  Inside shoots are very tricky, and switching the WB doesn't yield me a neutral result. I'll figure it out  

[albireo_double]

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In my view:

S2: 640 (but don't underexpose too much; grain is usually very nice; there are saturated colours and good contrast; images have impact)

007: 1600 (in my limited experience so far, have only had the camera for two weeks) - I think 3200 will be usable, too but I've made some images at this setting that I didn't like, with colours going a bit muddy / blown highlights with the camera exposing too much "to the right". I need more time to figure this one out.

 

don't know about 006

[menos I M6]

The absolute max I use on the S2 is 640.

 

When I want image quality though and need faster ISO, I dial in max ISO 320, set -1 to -3 EV as needed, choose my shutter speeds and push the files back in Lightroom with selective noise reduction.

 

At speeds higher than ~ ISO 1600 I stop using the S2 files for color - they do look great though compared to pushed B&W film at those speeds.

 

The S2 files are generally similar to M9 files in how they behave in pushing.

 

When I do need a SLR, high resolution and need ISO higher than 320, I do grab a Nikon though. The D800E absolutely murders the S2 files above ISO 1250 and is perfectly usable even at ISO 1600 (where S2 files are truly borderline). D800E files even do look very nice still at 3200. Nothing from Nikon comes close though to the S2 files @ ISO 160 and 320.

 

I am curious how the new S behaves in this regard - sample files do look astonishing at higher ISO.

[jip]

Shot this yesterday with the S-E (Typ 006) and 70mm Summarit-S ASPH. CS

 

1/125

ISO 800

F 5,6

 

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[menos I M6]

When the S sensor has lots of light like in the shot above and the contrast is easy enough to cope while shadows are not deeper then can be pushed, it works sufficiently well.

Once you shoot in low light with severe contrast or very much underexposed with deep shadows, then you will run into the same issues as with the M8/9.

Heavy noise and at a certain point streaking.

 

Watch the contrast and try not to use above ISO 640/800 in camera but rather push in Lightroom from there instead.

[hoppyman]

I think a lot depends on your subject the quality/contrast of your light, your exposure decisions and how you develop your images, including noise reduction.

with my S2. First image 640 ISO, second image 1250

 

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[mjrp]

Hi

 

I got the 007 last week and have had time to test it against the 006 which I can't face getting rid of! The higher ISO of the 007 is really impressive, it's not just that there is little noise, it's the fact that what is there is really nice and also the dynamic range seems to hardly suffer at all. I've been shooting subjects in pretty hard light, deep shadows etc and honestly, the 007 at ISO1600 looks like the 006 at ISO400 but with more latitude in the shadows, it's pretty good. I have been able to set auto ISO to a maximum of 1600 and just wander about shooting handheld when I would never dream of doing the same with the 006.

 

It's a very fast camera compared with the 006, rear screen is really superb, instant image review and 100% view, af feels much faster and in the conditions I have been using it, locks on perfectly. The shutter feels completely different, it's a different sound, more mechanical almost but literally no movement through the body at all, like you can hear it has shot but can't feel it.

 

There are things I don't particularly like, 2 second delay doesn't lift the mirror like it does on the 006, not really sure why it doesn't. I love the depth of field gauge on the top screen but really annoying that it doesn't change as you focus, you need to release the shutter and then repress it to see an updated dof readings, makes it quite a pain. Something strange happens with the shutter button sometimes, like it is sticking but happens randomly, sometimes I can't get the shutter speed to change when in video mode, need to come out of it, change and then back in, sure that must be a bug. There are other small things as well but minor. 

 

I'm just happy to be able to stick the 180 on, set min shutter speed to 1/360 and auto ISO and just shoot, it's far more flexible than the 006 as an all purpose camera. The 006 has been my bread and butter commercial camera for almost a year now and has had a few issues but on the whole produces amazing images, the 007 really looks like it will do the same, I have 3 jobs next week and will use it alongside the 006 to see how it goes.

 

Cheers

 

Mat

[dfarkas]

Hi

 

I got the 007 last week and have had time to test it against the 006 which I can't face getting rid of! The higher ISO of the 007 is really impressive, it's not just that there is little noise, it's the fact that what is there is really nice and also the dynamic range seems to hardly suffer at all. I've been shooting subjects in pretty hard light, deep shadows etc and honestly, the 007 at ISO1600 looks like the 006 at ISO400 but with more latitude in the shadows, it's pretty good. I have been able to set auto ISO to a maximum of 1600 and just wander about shooting handheld when I would never dream of doing the same with the 006.

 

It's a very fast camera compared with the 006, rear screen is really superb, instant image review and 100% view, af feels much faster and in the conditions I have been using it, locks on perfectly. The shutter feels completely different, it's a different sound, more mechanical almost but literally no movement through the body at all, like you can hear it has shot but can't feel it.

 

There are things I don't particularly like, 2 second delay doesn't lift the mirror like it does on the 006, not really sure why it doesn't. I love the depth of field gauge on the top screen but really annoying that it doesn't change as you focus, you need to release the shutter and then repress it to see an updated dof readings, makes it quite a pain. Something strange happens with the shutter button sometimes, like it is sticking but happens randomly, sometimes I can't get the shutter speed to change when in video mode, need to come out of it, change and then back in, sure that must be a bug. There are other small things as well but minor. 

 

I'm just happy to be able to stick the 180 on, set min shutter speed to 1/360 and auto ISO and just shoot, it's far more flexible than the 006 as an all purpose camera. The 006 has been my bread and butter commercial camera for almost a year now and has had a few issues but on the whole produces amazing images, the 007 really looks like it will do the same, I have 3 jobs next week and will use it alongside the 006 to see how it goes.

 

Cheers

 

Mat

 

 

Mat,

 

Glad to hear you are liking the 007. The difference in speed and responsiveness is really noticeable. As is the high ISO ability and broader dynamic range.

 

The mirror lockup has been separated from the self timer, but you can turn mirror lockup on and it will behave the same way. Unfortunately, you'll have to disable mirror lockup after going back to single or continuous. I expressed my concerns to Leica regarding this approach and suggested some alternatives. The DOF gauge not reading continuously is also something that Leica is well aware of and has told me will be addressed in the next firmware release. I'm confident most small issues will be taken care of with the next firmware update.  

 

Looking forward to see how it performs on your upcoming jobs.

[mjrp]

I have been using the 007 a lot now and have some observations regarding very low light. I run aurora workshops and it's actually possible to capture some aurora with the 006 when it's strong, I tested the 007 last night in clear skies and with moon very low on the horizon behind me. I am amazed!! With a good strong aurora I'm really limited to ISO 200 with 8 second exposure  on the 006, anything higher is just too noisy, I was able to shoot last night with the 007 at ISO 1600 for 8 seconds and the file has noise but very manageable. I'm going to say that it is better than the D800 at ISO1250. This was low ambient light and clear skies, hopefully there will be some decent aurora to try with over the next few nights.

 

Some other observations, I really love this camera but for me I will be using it to extend the shooting envelope of the 006, I won't be replacing it. I'm probably going to change my mind as things go on but I know the 006 files and at base ISO I don't think there is any camera that produces a better image, the 007 files are different but I don't think they are better at base.

 

 

Overall the experience is brilliant but some issues keep popping up, metering is fairly random, sometimes on aperture priority walking about, the camera just underexposes massively, no idea why, I noticed, changed to manual and even increasing shutter speed didn't affect metering. I have had to pull the battery a couple of times now to reset and things go back to normal. Live view is pretty great but shutter button has issues, it's like it loses the half press, gets stuck down so just touching it fires the shutter, only happens when live view has been active a short while, turn it off and things go back to normal, no idea what that is about.

 

I'm getting used to the files now, loads of latitude but I really love the 006 files. Maybe as I get more used to it I will feel differently about the 006 but I doubt it!

 

Mat

 

 

[menos I M6]

I always found metering with the S2 reliable, ………… , if you use center weighted metering.

The moment you switch to Leica's interpretation of Matrix metering you are just gambling.

 

We are probably so accustomed to how perfect matrix metering works on high end pro DSLRs nowadays that the way it is working in the Leica S is simply underwhelming.

 

I really never use Matrix metering with the S2 as it is completely unpredictable. It is reliable, it works, it is just the metering patterns it can interpret are simply too limited that it gets a lot of shots entirely wrong.

The old way of using AE, locking exposure with center weighted metering, recomposing works best with the S2 for me.

 

The Matrix metering in Nikon SLRs has always been cutting edge and there are very, very few occasions, when I switch my Nikon bodies away from matrix metering.

[mjrp]

I only ever use centre weighted, it is reliable on the 006 just doesn't seem to so on the 007, needs battery out to reset it then it works fine again for a while. Matrix is not something I have ever tried.

[Willy ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°]

I am following this thread, and as a novice to Leica (S2 and T), and after having moth-balled my Nikon D3X, I must say that I am concerned about the inherent flaws as they are being described here. Did I make the right choice? Anyone interested in a S2 and a T ?

[mjrp]

What flaws are concerning you and are you experiencing any issues or just reading about them? In my opinion, the S is without doubt the best camera in the world at what it does but if you're expecting it to be a medium format D3X then you're going to be disappointed. It produces incredibly beautiful, deep, rich files at lower ISO's, files I have never been able to get from any other camera. My advice is to use it, decide for yourself what it does and doesn't do and then go from there, getting worried from reading others views seems a bit daft to me, your own experience will always be based on your own needs.

 

Just go and make beautiful images with it!

[Willy ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°]

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying hard to do just that.  http://www.pix4kix.com/gallery_678728.html

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[peterv]

Willy, don't worry too much. Most 'flaws' are just minor annoyances, which depend on the user and what he/she is expecting, no system is perfect. It's a wonderful system and we all have different experiences.

 

For instance, I've always used matrix metering and I think exposure on my S2 is very good. Of course I've learned to override with exposure compensation if necessary, but that's easy. 

 

I agree with Mat, the files are just great, very malleable.