the 90mm portrait question

[CheshireCat]

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CheshireCat, I have very slightly tweaked White Balance in LR5, sampling various small segments of the silver pendant. On my calibrated monitor there was a small perceptible change in the blouse colour. I also increased exposure slightly since there was plenty of room on the histogram rhs. But the trouble is your lighting was end-of-day dappled shade/sunlight which can alter how the hue of colours. The eye is very accommodating; the camera less so. I suggest you test again in even lighting taking a grey-card shot for later fine-tuning.

 

Thanks David. On my display your image looks really cold, definitely not what you would expect from a hot Spanish summer afternoon.

The other problem with this lens is that it tends to blow highlights while still keeping a very high contrast on mids and shadows, so much that underexposing will cause a loss in shadow details (check the hair). I guess this is caused by the obsolete coating technology.

It is very annoying to see very bright spots in the background, especially as I know my Zeiss 100 MP has a much smoother highlights curve and all is needed is a small highlight compression in Lr.

[CheshireCat]

Have you tried other examples of the same lens model under the same circumstances to rule out sample variation?

 

No, but I have seen shots from other samples and they have the same problem.

[NZDavid]

Surely color differences would be more due to the sensor than the lens? How do other lenses compare? A bit hard to tell unless you shot the same composition at the same exposure. Perhaps some more testing is in order before blaming the lens entirely?

 

I find the 2/8/90 Elmarit can be quite warm. It is excellent for portraits, but as always with the M9, focusing has to be bang on (I aim for the eyes). It is very high resolution, revealing every skin detail, but also has a nice 3D effect. 90 T/E is also great, but will flare more if you are not careful.

[CheshireCat]

Perhaps some more testing is in order before blaming the lens entirely?

 

Did my homeworks:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/354816-90mm-portrait-question-2.html#post2831451

[pgk]

Note that some web browsers will not be able to display this image correctly, therefore I recommend saving the JPEG and opening it with a proper program.

Monitor callibration, type, age, settings, ambient light intensity and colour/quality, age of viewer, personal preferences - none are taken into account by web delivered jpegs. What I may see may well be far removed from what you are seeing.

 

As I said before my Elmarit-M has NO colour issues. Compared directly with my 75mm Apo-Summicron the only real difference that I see is a hint of chroma in the corners and far edges which can largely be corrected in post. Its the best 90mm Leica lens I've owned (and I've owned or tried at least 6 types - with the exception of the current Apo-Summicron). You need to look closely at yours to see what the matter with it is but colour problems have not existed on the 2 x Elmarit-Ms that I've owned.

[wda]

Thanks David. On my display your image looks really cold, definitely not what you would expect from a hot Spanish summer afternoon..

It is impossible to work on an image you haven't taken and get faithful rendering of what the photographer saw. On my calibrated Eizo monitor it was cooler than your original. My WB sample most probably was not from truly neutral pixels, often the case if no grey card was shot. In such as case I would normally finely tune the white balance correction in LR until the result either pleased me or was distinctly more accurate. In most cases this is very successful.

 

Returning to the specific question of 90mm Elmarit, with my use of this lens there is no obvious colour bias. Perhaps there is something wrong with your sample, extremely unlikely in my opinion. Very slight differences can easily be cured with a LR preset.

 

Although I no longer use Sigma lenses, there was a time when the colour rendering was so very different to Leica that I tired of using them. If I had been totally committed to Sigma, then I would have made a preset in LR to render how I saw the original subjects. Such corrections are possible if you are prepared to work that way towards a chosen solution.

[wizard]

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... this is caused by the obsolete coating technology....

 

Another totally unsubstantiated comment. My Elmarit-M 90mm has very modern multicoated lens elements, and since there are only four of them anyway, any improvement in coating technology that may meanwhile have occurred will not result in a noticeable difference in lens performance. Leica manufactured and successfully sold this lens for more than 20 years, and for sure they would not have managed to do that if there would have been any color issues.

 

If you do not like your lens (which is, of course, entirely at your discretion), get rid of it, but don't try to make up a color issue that simply isn't there. In more than 20 years of worldwide use, someone else would have noticed such a problem long before. BTW, the color rendition of my copy is quite fine and in line with almost all other modern Leica lenses I own and use. Vintage lenses are another story.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[otto.f]

I wonder if the OP does portraits in colour

[CheshireCat]

Although I no longer use Sigma lenses, there was a time when the colour rendering was so very different to Leica that I tired of using them. If I had been totally committed to Sigma, then I would have made a preset in LR to render how I saw the original subjects. Such corrections are possible if you are prepared to work that way towards a chosen solution.

 

Yes, I also could not stand the color rendering of some Sigma lenses, such as the 12-24 or the old 70-210. The latest Sigma "Art" lenses are a different story.

Note that I know a lot of people that think old Sigma colors is perfectly fine and I am the weirdo (I am glad there are at least two of us ).

 

The same thing is going on with the Elmarit 90 for me. And I am not going to mess around with a color table any time the lighting and environment changes. I already did it once to verify that the lens has quite different colors from my taste (i.e. modern Zeiss teles), and the results should be evident reading this thread I have already cited:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/317424-elmarit-m-90-11807-vs-zeiss.html

 

It is not just my copy of the lens. Take a look at the Elmarit-90 group on Flickr:

 

https://www.flickr.com/groups/1610757@N23/pool/

 

Most photos look dull and washed-out to me. Notice how many of them had a saturation boost in post that is doing more harm than good.

 

Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you guys like crappy colors, then you are the winners, as you have one more lens to enjoy in your bag.

[CheshireCat]

Another totally unsubstantiated comment. My Elmarit-M 90mm has very modern multicoated lens elements

 

Multicoating does not imply total absence of color cast.

[pgk]

Multicoating does not imply total absence of color cast.

Whilst true, with sales of around 25,000 and only ONE user (as far as I've ever come across) complaining of a colour cast, this does not imply a problem inherent in the lens design/manufacture/multicoating of the Elmarit-M. It does however imply that the ONE user either has a significant problem with aspecific copy of the lens (fairly unlikely as the cause would be obvious if the colour cast was significant) or has a problem interpreting colour for some reason (and this is of course difficult to assess from web postings). If you are happy to use your Elmarit-M as a black & white only lens then great:), but please don't spread rumours and assertions that this lens model has flaws which it really does not have.

[algrove]

We all have varying opinions, however I still like mine.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2790741-post13.html

[otto.f]

We all have varying opinions, however I still like mine.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2790741-post13.html

 

As I said, it can be a bit harsh, like here in bright sunlight. But that's what the OP prefers above a too soft rendering