Film recomendations [long, poss boring post]

[plasticman]

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It's a long time since I used film, so I feel rather out-of-touch with what's available these days.

In my early 20s I developed and printed my own b&w (mostly tri-x), and sent away Ektachrome and Kodachrome for color.

Kodachrome 64 I loved for its warmth and realistic saturation, and Ektachrome for its slightly more clinical realism.

 

Now I'm slowly returning to the film environment with the M6 - and really loving the camera and lenses (so far a Nocti and Summicron 90/2, and desperately searching for a 21 2,8) - but generally disappointed with the standard processing that the pro lab is giving me.

 

In the long run I can imagine processing my own b&w again, but i don't think that's gonna realistically happen with color.

So - to the crux of the post - when I get my films processed and printed, they're rolled through a standard machine process (the only reasonable option for what amount to snapshots - at least at the moment), and then given an automated low-res scan. The quality of the printed images is pretty appalling whether b&w or color to be frank - but I can tell from the scans that the detail and dynamic range is there in the b&w rolls at least, so i can always come back and re-print the good shots.

 

But the first color roll - FUJICOLOR SUPERIA 100 - was a real shock: oversaturated and blotchy even in the negative scan - but so oversaturated in the prints that details were totally obliterated everywhere.

 

I've attached a downscaled example of one test shot (no artistic criticism thanks) to show the horrible over-saturated cyan response, and a Photoshop desaturated version to show a slightly more realistic example of what I'd prefer. Needless to say, the printed versions are even more shocking than the screen version - the yellows and purples in print practically glowing off the page.

 

So what are the options available now? Are there still color films that give a nuanced reflection of reality? Or does everyone supply oversaturated, 'MTV-generation' film emulsions nowadays?

 

Recomendations for subtle color, and sensitively nuanced b&w films gratefully received...

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[stunsworth]

The low res scans are probably derived from the file used to produce the print. The only answer is to either find a different lab that produces better prints/scans - there's nothing intrisically wrong with the film, or invest in a scanner and scan the negatives yourself.

 

Rolo who posts here uses a lab to process his films and has scans made from them and he's happy with the results he gets

[plasticman]

Thanks Steve

 

Yep - the scans are indeed made directly from the negatives. But the attached images were really intended only as an example of the problem.

 

My main aim with returning to film was not the digital versions of the images (the low-res scans are included in the processing price), but rather what i remembered as the more nuanced subtlety of film compared to digital captures (and also what i've come to consider to be the more 'thoughtful' process of film photography compared to digital capture - but that's another discussion).

 

Anyway, when i looked at this first roll of color prints, i was simply appalled by the incredible over-saturation of almost all the colors. The attached images illustrate the cyan sky - but the yellows of some flowers in another print were so overdone that the flower head itself was a glowing block of color, with no detail whatsoever.

 

When looking at manufacturer's websites, they all seem to be stressing saturation as one of the main selling-points of their emulsions.

I'm simply hoping that there are still some films available that don't process like neon.

[stunsworth]

It's quite normal these days for labs to give a boost to saturation and contrast when they're printing - it makes the prints look more empressive to many people. I think your problems are probably being caused by the lab. I'd try having a roll of film processed at a pro lab and sing if there's a noticible difference. My guess is that there would be.

 

I realise that Stockholm is a long way away, but if you want me to scan a strip of negatives - 4 or 6 only <grin> - and send you back a CD with the scans on it send me a PM and I'll give you my home address.

[wattsy]

I rather like the oversaturated cyan in your first shot. Must make me part of the "MTV generation" (even if I've never watched it).

[plasticman]

I realise that Stockholm is a long way away, but if you want me to scan a strip of negatives - 4 or 6 only <grin> - and send you back a CD with the scans on it send me a PM and I'll give you my home address.

 

That's an amazingly generous offer Steve! - and i'll definitely take you up on it when I've gone through a few rolls of different film (this is a frame from the first roll of color that's gone through the camera since i bought it). Wow - this place and the people on it are so incredible - it never ceases to amaze me! Thanks again!

 

For the meantime, the critical thing is this - my plan is to buy a second M6TTL (a chrome body this time) so that i can have one color and one b&w body on the go all the time. Now if someone doesn't suggest a decent color film, there's NO WAY i'm gonna be able to justify this second camera to my girlfriend (she already looks a funny way at me when she catches me looking at this site, to be honest).

 

So - for the good of the secondhand value of those Leicas you guys own - please come up with some nice color films for me to try. I'm doing this out of pure generosity to you, of course....

[stunsworth]

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The slow colour negative film I used to use most was Fuji Reala. ISO 100 and natural colours.

[Mark Antony]

Hi Plasticman

Films are printed by modern minilabs by laser onto paper, in other-words they are digitized. If you can find an old style minilab (Agfa MSC) you'll have a lens and a bulb and a less 'poppy' result.

The Fuji superia and Kodak gold type emulsions are designed for P&S type cameras where eye catching colours and saturation are desired for immediate snap.

My recommendation would be to use a film like Kodak Portra 160NC or Fuji NPS 160, these are a little less contrasty and will give you better results with more natural colour.

 

 

I think Portra NC will be a good place to start.

[plasticman]

Films are printed by modern minilabs by laser onto paper, in other-words they are digitized. If you can find an old style minilab (Agfa MSC) you'll have a lens and a bulb and a less 'poppy' result.

 

This I definitely wasn't aware of - naively i thought all labs still developed in the old analog fashion. How disappointing.

My dilemma here is that i purposely went to the pro lab with the supposedly best reputation in town - but i guess their processes are different for different types of client, and i came along with a 135 roll of b&w and one of color... so i guess i didn't get the VIP processing.

 

 

I think Portra NC will be a good place to start.

 

Now this is where it looks like i got lucky - because not only does your image look much more like the color rendition i was hoping for - I actually bought a five-pack of this film last week! So i'll keep you updated.

 

One last thing - and i'm still a pretty young guy, so this isn't a nostalgia for the REAL old days - but i'm simply amazed by how many films seem to have disappeared over the last few years. Really sad.

[square_one]

Plasticman - Talking strictly black and white, there are some top-quality old-fashioned B&W labs in the US that do terrific traditional developing and RC and Fiber printing. You of course pay more for the REAL THING but it's well worth the money if you're willing to suffer through long-ish development turnarounds of, say, 5-10 days ... then another 5-10 days when you resubmit negative frames for printing per your crop/print instructions. There are ways to shorten analog turnaround, including having the lab hold on to your negatives or scanning back and forth, but I avoid both since I want 100% analog and need to view the raw negs and contacts before investing in an expensive RC print - or very expensive fiber print.

 

In short, if you want the real thing nowadays, you'll need patience, patience, and more patience. I did this stuff myself for many years ,then found a good custom lab that could do better and freed myself from both darkroom purgatory and electronic imagery.

 

Hopefully there are quality B&W-ONLY labs in Sweden similar to Gamma Photo Lab in San Francisco http://www.gammasf.com/gamma_prices.html or Dalmatian Black and White Labs in Greensboro NChttp://www.dalmatianlab.com/about/.

 

Best of luck in your quest, Bruce.

[plasticman]

Thanks Bruce - those labs sound really great.

 

Unfortunately, i have a feeling that the market here in Sweden would probably be too small to maintain a dedicated old-school b&w lab - but now i'm hoping that someone might see this post and correct me on that...!

 

As far as b&w printing was concerned, i must say i quite enjoyed it back in my university days - found it quite contemplative in fact. I don't think i'll find the time for it now though - and that's why i hoped that a decent pro lab would do an okay job - especially as my ambition level was relatively low.

 

But the color prints are gonna be hard... I begin to wonder whether transparency film might be better than negative film when it comes to color rendition?

 

PS: surfing a little more round the Dalmatian website leaves me speechless with envy - now THAT is a wonderful b&w service. So long as people like that exist, i still hold hope for the survival of film...

[rob_x2004]

Ayyy Manni! Welcome home. Ok, ok I will read the thread now:o.

[rob_x2004]

So, did you say whether you were going ot get a scanner or not? Maybe it would be a better idea than a second body to start with. Get used to one colour film and learn how to dial in the properties you like with conisistent editing. You always have your RAW files. Convert them to black and white. Develop your own black and white for happy snap film wasting to get the hang of the camera and lighting. Ehhhhh....tell the girl you are going to buy another body. What the heck:D.

[plasticman]

Rob, Rob - what did the nurse tell you? She specifically said one of the little red ones every 3 hours, and a big blue one twice a day after food.

[Guest stnami]

Hey Rob the plastic guy doesn't realise that we use the waves at a beach to go surfing

surfing a little more round the Dalmatian website leaves me speechless with envy

[plasticman]

but imants - that's what i meant with "a big blue one twice a day after food..."

 

http://www.jungleboffin.com/images/artoriginals/snow/waves/bigblue.jpg

 

[Guest stnami]

Manni I am sure that you can spare an hour or so to develop your own B&W negs every couple of weeks.................... as for colour or even B&W the film/digital and maybe is a sweet combination

[rob_x2004]

wow this new forums got wobbly beans hasnt it. Mani all your info is gone and I had to member search you to find out if I had lost me marbles...and I dont mean member search like that stockholm nurse does mani settle down!

 

Anyway it tipped me out and now tells me you are in stockholm Australia. So you must be in a padded cell near me.

 

ried posting earlier but the place kept taking a fatal attractio...I mean fatal exception to me and well...now I do need those little pills. Now whats that nurses number and tell me she isnt now your girlfriend.

 

Hey the fuji works great. Its your dud scans. Will send you a link if you like.

[plasticman]

Mani all your info is gone

 

Rob - i tend to feel like that every saturday morning...

 

The nurse is taking good care of me - but damn it's difficult using a keyboard when this jacket keeps my hands behind my back...

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[hans_s]

Ett labb i Stockholm, specialiserat på svart-vitt?

Om du inte redan provat kunde du ge Odenlab en chans. Själv brukar jag bli nöjd med deras jobb med Kodak BW400CN. Jag har också använt Fuji Superia 100 och låtit dem sköta framkallning och kopiering utan att färgerna har blivit alltför övermättade. Men vad som ska räknas som övermättat är ju en smaksak förstås. Om du ändå inte blir nöjd kunde du ju försöka att prata med dem när du lämnar och förklara hur du vill ha det.

 

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