Otis 85mm f1.4

[CheshireCat]

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Both Canon and Nikon are deliberately obstructing screen replacement on flagship models to deny sales to Zeiss.

 

I think this is more a way to reduce production costs, or the usual stupid marketing trick to castrate cheaper cameras to sell you a more expensive pro model. Zeiss sells to a small niche of photographers that want the best quality and do not need AF.

 

In any case, you cannot achieve critical focus on modern sensors with a focusing screen (whatever type). You need an EVF with 1:1 magnification and focus peaking.

[CheshireCat]

It's a superlative lens that belongs on a DSLR and, hence, not in this section of the forum.

 

Let me fix that for you;

 

It is a superlative lens that belongs on modern cameras (including mirrorless) with proper EVF hardware and software, hence not in this section of the forum.

[wattsy]

If it makes you feel better.

[james.liam]

I think this is more a way to reduce production costs, or the usual stupid marketing trick to castrate cheaper cameras to sell you a more expensive pro model. Zeiss sells to a small niche of photographers that want the best quality and do not need AF.

 

In any case, you cannot achieve critical focus on modern sensors with a focusing screen (whatever type). You need an EVF with 1:1 magnification and focus peaking.

 

I raised this question with Rachael Katz of 'KatzEye Optics', who make high-quality MF screens. She's an engineer by training and according to her, both Canon and Nikon have intentionally designed the area about the focusing screen to prevent easy replacement in more recent models. This was not the case with the D700, D7xxx or 5D Mk I & II. One can postulate many theories but in the case of Nikon who tout backward compatibility to their AI glass, it is puzzling. The only logical reason for both of them to cripple this is to sell more of their OEM AF lenses and to hell with the legacy glass or Zeiss.

[NB23]

I raised this question with Rachael Katz of 'KatzEye Optics', who make high-quality MF screens. She's an engineer by training and according to her, both Canon and Nikon have intentionally designed the area about the focusing screen to prevent easy replacement in more recent models. This was not the case with the D700, D7xxx or 5D Mk I & II. One can postulate many theories but in the case of Nikon who tout backward compatibility to their AI glass, it is puzzling. The only logical reason for both of them to cripple this is to sell more of their OEM AF lenses and to hell with the legacy glass or Zeiss.

 

Which is totally Expected, Normal, Logical.

[james.liam]

For Canon, absolutely. Less so for Nikon. They scrupulously maintain compatibility to old glass yet offer no optional screens to focus them properly. There's a disconnect.

[NB23]

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For Canon, absolutely. Less so for Nikon. They scrupulously maintain compatibility to old glass yet offer no optional screens to focus them properly. There's a disconnect.

 

They can't survive on making people smile for free. The day Nikon starts selling manual lenses again, you bet they'll offer a camera with a killer set of interchangeable focusing screens.

 

I have a very, very good record of in-ficus inages using my Noct-Nikkor on my D700s and Dfs. The green dot is extremely accurate. I can't really complain.

[CheshireCat]

The only logical reason for both of them to cripple this is to sell more of their OEM AF lenses and to hell with the legacy glass or Zeiss.

 

Do you really think Canon is losing a lot of sales to Zeiss ? Take a look around, how many Zeiss lenses do you see used by average Canon customers ?

You will see a lot more Sigma AF lenses around, and that is impacting on Canon lens sales a lot more.

 

And how do you explain that:

 

1) Canon did not disable Live View, or 1:1 magnification in recent models.

2) The 6D has been introduced after the 5D3 and it has interchangeable focusing screens.

3) The 1Dx has interchangeable focusing screens.

 

?

[CheshireCat]

The day Nikon starts selling manual lenses again, you bet they'll offer a camera with a killer set of interchangeable focusing screens.

 

That will happen in a parallel universe, maybe.

In this universe, people* don't buy manual lenses.

 

*people = 99.9% of customers.

[NB23]

That will happen in a parallel universe, maybe.

In this universe, people* don't buy manual lenses.

 

*people = 99.9% of customers.

 

1: This is why we are Leica die-hards. At least I am.

2: This is why Nikon doesn't care about interchangeable focusing screens.

[james.liam]

Do you really think Canon is losing a lot of sales to Zeiss ? Take a look around, how many Zeiss lenses do you see used by average Canon customers ?

You will see a lot more Sigma AF lenses around, and that is impacting on Canon lens sales a lot more.

 

And how do you explain that:

 

1) Canon did not disable Live View, or 1:1 magnification in recent models.

2) The 6D has been introduced after the 5D3 and it has interchangeable focusing screens.

3) The 1Dx has interchangeable focusing screens.

 

?

 

The Nikon D3 and higher don't, the D8xx don't, and neither can the 5D mk. III. Can't explain that either. The 1Dx can be explained in that it's geared toward videography and they need the screen interchangeability for focus.

 

The Nikon D7xxx, an APS-C, can be swapped out, why...who knows.

[alan.y]

The Nikon D3 and higher don't, the D8xx don't, and neither can the 5D mk. III. Can't explain that either. The 1Dx can be explained in that it's geared toward videography and they need the screen interchangeability for focus.

 

The Nikon D7xxx, an APS-C, can be swapped out, why...who knows.

 

I believe the 1DC is one that shoots 4k video, but anyway videographers cannot focus via the OVF. They need the mirror up for live view.

 

But I also find it strange that you can't switch out the focus screens of the 5D3 and the D8X0's, when people who buy those top-end models are also most likely to buy manual primes.

 

I also suspect part of the motivation is to keep people within their closed systems. But rather than an articulate strategy, it seems more like passive or even confused conservatism. Hence the bizarre segmentation--especially the Nikon DF, touted as a retro camera but with no changeable screen.

[james.liam]

/non-AI

I believe the 1DC is one that shoots 4k video, but anyway videographers cannot focus via the OVF. They need the mirror up for live view.

 

But I also find it strange that you can't switch out the focus screens of the 5D3 and the D8X0's, when people who buy those top-end models are also most likely to buy manual primes.

 

I also suspect part of the motivation is to keep people within their closed systems. But rather than an articulate strategy, it seems more like passive or even confused conservatism. Hence the bizarre segmentation--especially the Nikon DF, touted as a retro camera but with no changeable screen.

 

Thanks for the correction re: 1Dx/c.

 

That these higher end Nikon models are thus disabled, especially when they went to the effort to make the Dƒ compatible with even F mount lenses/non-AI lenses back to 1959 (and making a point of it) while not providing optional screens is inexplicable.

[zlatkob]

But I also find it strange that you can't switch out the focus screens of the 5D3 and the D8X0's, when people who buy those top-end models are also most likely to buy manual primes.

 

Due to viewfinder overlays, the 7D, 70D and 5D3 don't have interchangeable focusing screens, but the current 6D and 1DX do. Canon claims that the 1DX has more options for interchangeable focus screens than any other full-frame DSLR. The 1DC apparently has an optional focusing screen for close-up and microphotography.

[CheshireCat]

Due to viewfinder overlays, the 7D, 70D and 5D3 don't have interchangeable focusing screens, but the current 6D and 1DX do. Canon claims that the 1DX has more options for interchangeable focus screens than any other full-frame DSLR.

 

The interesting thing is that the 1Dx has overlays too.

[zlatkob]

The interesting thing is that the 1Dx has overlays too.

 

The 1DX is a heck of a lot more expensive than the other models with overlays.

 

Happily Canon users can change focusing screens on pretty much every higher end model made since 1989, including the much less expensive current 6D. But the precision matte screens are much darker than the standard and thus not as good for autofocus users.

[CheshireCat]

The 1DX is a heck of a lot more expensive than the other models with overlays.

 

Indeed, but this does not justify the overlays explanation.

 

Some people use the Eg-S in the 5D3, like this guy:

5D Mark III - Focusing Screen for Manual Lenses - YouTube

 

The only drawback is that the firmware won't let you set the screen type, so you have to manually compensate for metering errors. Not a big problem.

[zlatkob]

Indeed, but this does not justify the overlays explanation.

 

Some people use the Eg-S in the 5D3, like this guy:

5D Mark III - Focusing Screen for Manual Lenses - YouTube

 

The only drawback is that the firmware won't let you set the screen type, so you have to manually compensate for metering errors. Not a big problem.

 

Right, but maybe the 5D3, 7D and 70D would need to cost more in order to have both the overlays and the interchangeable screens. In other words, maybe with those cameras they made some tradeoffs, and with the 1DX they didn't. I'm neither an engineer nor a camera industry accountant, so I can only guess.

 

Whatever the reason, I agree with your explanation above that the omission of the screens on the 5D3 likely has little or nothing to do with Zeiss manual focus lenses. Canon makes some manual focus lenses too. If Canon wanted a "closed system" or whatever, they would not have the interchangeable screens on the 6D and 1DX or on other top-level cameras they've made for the past 25 years. I personally don't care to change the excellent screen on the 5D3 or to have to compensate for metering errors.

 

Rather than trying to thwart manual focus lens users, it's in Canon's interest to try to sell them more camera bodies. It is notable that Zeiss does not make DSLRs. Wouldn't Canon rather have Zeiss lens users buy Canon rather than Nikon? And I'm sure that at least a few Leica R users have bought Canon bodies on which to mount their R lenses, at least before the M240 came out.

[CheshireCat]

Rather than trying to thwart manual focus lens users, it's in Canon's interest to try to sell them more camera bodies.

 

Indeed, that is exactly the point.

Who shoots MF glass does not care much about which body they use as long as MF lenses give great results. These people will switch to other camera brands if shooting MF is a hassle with their Canon body.

 

And even if you shoot "Zeiss only", it is difficult to resist buying some great Canon lenses (200/2, and other state-of-the-art glass). I.e. more money to Canon from "Zeiss users".

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tobey bilek]

The D700 is not 100% viewfinder and with some stretching Katz can make the size screen required.

 

The D3 and 4, D800, DF are 100% and require a full 24x36 mm screen plus some edge space for mounting. This is beyond the size they can make with their "billet" and a larger one is not cost effective. Got this from Rachel.

 

The next problem is they are designed to be auto focus cameras and the factory does not set them as precisely as required for manual focus all the time. Some I have had to reset, some not. With less then pro cameras, you have to add or subtract shims. Pro cameras have a nice adjustment screw that raises or lowers the screen .

 

The green dot , while somewhat, precise requires you to take your eye off the subject. Not a problem if you are doing landscape, never work for sports.

 

Now with a 240, I suppose an Otus in Nikon mount could be used in EVF mode. Still somewhat slow and clumsy.