jsjxyz Posted April 30, 2007 Share #1 Posted April 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am a bit tired of using M8 with Metz 54MZ-4i and SCA 3502M4 in M with GnC. When I set up to A mode, my M8 seding sporadic ISO, Zoom and Aperature to the flash, so the A mode is unusable. How to use the A mode then? Should i Replace the SCA 3502 to the generic basic shoe? Regards, Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 30, 2007 Posted April 30, 2007 Hi jsjxyz, Take a look here M8 with Metz 54MZ-4i and SCA 3502M4 in A mode. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 30, 2007 Share #2 Posted April 30, 2007 I am a bit tired of using M8 with Metz 54MZ-4i and SCA 3502M4 in M with GnC. When I set up to A mode, my M8 seding sporadic ISO, Zoom and Aperature to the flash, so the A mode is unusable. How to use the A mode then? Should i Replace the SCA 3502 to the generic basic shoe? Regards, Jerry Jerry, When I use the Auto mode on my 54, I set the settings manually on the 54. The M8 does not affect them in my case. The 3502 is working just fine for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted April 30, 2007 Share #3 Posted April 30, 2007 I am a bit tired of using M8 with Metz 54MZ-4i and SCA 3502M4 in M with GnC. When I set up to A mode, my M8 seding sporadic ISO, Zoom and Aperature to the flash, so the A mode is unusable. How to use the A mode then? Should i Replace the SCA 3502 to the generic basic shoe? Regards, Jerry You may have a problem with your adapter. The M8 will send the ISO and focal length, but you need to set the Aperture on the flash. I don't know if it is the case with your adapter, if you over tightened the locking ring on the flash foot, it can cause the flash pins to have poor contact. This is usually only a problem if the shoe on the camera has been bent and the flash is a loose fit. I had it happen with a Canon 1D and taking the shoe off and bending it back closed and into proper shape fixed the flash communication problems. With my M8 and 54 MZ3, I have no problems shooting on Auto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsjxyz Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted April 30, 2007 >This is usually only a problem if the shoe on the camera has been bent and the flash is a loose fit. I had it happen with a Canon 1D and taking the shoe off and bending it back closed and into proper shape fixed the flash communication problems. I guess I was tightening too hard, after I reconnect again, I turn on the M8 first before turning the Flaash, now everything is OK. Even the flash remembers when I put the M to GnC, it stays the same after the flash is turn off. Thanks guys JSJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 30, 2007 Share #5 Posted April 30, 2007 What a great resource this forum is. Jerry, I agree about the gnc. I don't like the preflash when shooting people. Auto works great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted May 2, 2007 Share #6 Posted May 2, 2007 Bill- I started playing with my M8 and 54Mz flash last night in both M+GNC as well as Auto. I thank you for your prior lucid discussion that made the attempt so easy... In M+GNC, I understand that you set any aperture and speed you want on the M8, depress and let the prefash do the calculations before the final flash. My question is how do you know that you are not overexposed (no flash) or underexposed? Does the camera give you a warning? Or do you just see it when the picture is over or underexposed? Second question in M+GNC: If you want to deliberately UNDER or OVerexpose, do you simply change your M8 EV? Being in M mode, you cannot override the Metz EV itself.... Third question: in Auto metz mode, if you want to deliberately under or over expose can you change the M8 EV as in question 2 ? Can you also just change the EV in the Metz? Is one method better than the other? For completeness sake, you could also change the lens' Ev, say the flash is set at f/8, you could just use f/5.6 or f/11 or whatever... Fourth question: you cannot bounce flash in M+GNC but you can in Auto? Thanks, Albert:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted May 2, 2007 Share #7 Posted May 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Albert: I haven't used the GNC much, but I think just dialing in exposure comp on the camera worked. As for Auto, you can use the exposure comp on the flash or just move the aperture on the lens to adjust. In other words, if the Metz is set to f5.6 and your pictures are too dark, set the lens to 4.5 to get lighter pictures. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsjxyz Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted May 2, 2007 Bill, Here is the picture using GnC, with the flash bounce to the white wall behind me. Cat Face photo - Jerry Justianto photos at pbase.com thanks for your advice!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 2, 2007 Share #9 Posted May 2, 2007 ... In M+GNC, I understand that you set any aperture and speed you want on the M8, depress and let the prefash do the calculations before the final flash. My question is how do you know that you are not overexposed (no flash) or underexposed? Does the camera give you a warning? Or do you just see it when the picture is over or underexposed? Second question in M+GNC: If you want to deliberately UNDER or OVerexpose, do you simply change your M8 EV? Being in M mode, you cannot override the Metz EV itself.... Third question: in Auto metz mode, if you want to deliberately under or over expose can you change the M8 EV as in question 2 ? Can you also just change the EV in the Metz? Is one method better than the other? For completeness sake, you could also change the lens' Ev, say the flash is set at f/8, you could just use f/5.6 or f/11 or whatever... Fourth question: you cannot bounce flash in M+GNC but you can in Auto? Thanks, Albert:) Albert, 4. I got an off-camera cord for the Metz (used on eBay) so I can do the gnc with an umbrella, buy putting the thingy in the hot shoe. 3. In A mode, I would set the ev on the Metz unit (haven't done this so can't say how). I think I'd be tempted to chimp and set the aperture on the M8 to accomplish this. Others can comment here. 2. Same thing. I don't fool with the ev setting, prefering to chimp and set the aperture. 1. When you are gnc-ing, the M8 and the Metz don't talk to you; at least, I don't know if they do. I look at the review screen and adjust accordingly. As you can see, I depend on the review screen a lot. Although it's a good screen, it's just not revealing enuf and I bracket some when I'm in doubt. As I said in the post you refer to, I only use gnc now when there are no people involved, or there is no movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 2, 2007 Share #10 Posted May 2, 2007 Bill, Here is the picture using GnC, with the flash bounce to the white wall behind me. Cat Face photo - Jerry Justianto photos at pbase.com thanks for your advice!! Jerry, I'll look tonite when I can get to the site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted May 2, 2007 Share #11 Posted May 2, 2007 Bill- thanks for the info. I agree that the AUTO mode is the most useful but will try GNC for stills.... Obviously, Jimmy proved you can use BOUNCE with GNC as well... I will probably use Flash EV as opposed to changing the lens aperture as the DOF is sometimes critical. Seems you prefer changing the EV on the Metz for Auto but in manual, there is no Metz ev change so it is either M8 EV change or aperture change.... Thnaks again and will try the SCA 3008 adapter also... I am getting hooked... :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 2, 2007 Share #12 Posted May 2, 2007 ... Thnaks again and will try the SCA 3008 adapter also... I am getting hooked... :) I wish this thing had a longer cable. Metz makes stuff that is uncompromising (read: NOT user friendly). Man , I love this flash -- and waited many years before getting one -- but it sure makes people jump thru hoops. To set options, both the camera and the 54 have to be on. It tells me stuff that I don't always understand. BUT what a tremendous amount of light. Yeah, the gnc is really neat. I would use it for stills, as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted May 2, 2007 Share #13 Posted May 2, 2007 Bill- You mentionned that for GNC you would change the aperture to darken or lighten the picture. But if you are inGNC and you do this, doesn't the preflash measure this and correct automatically for the EV change you made? Theoretically, I think that the only independent variable would be the M8 EV compensator? Am I wrong about this? Albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 2, 2007 Share #14 Posted May 2, 2007 Bill-You mentionned that for GNC you would change the aperture to darken or lighten the picture. But if you are inGNC and you do this, doesn't the preflash measure this and correct automatically for the EV change you made? Theoretically, I think that the only independent variable would be the M8 EV compensator? Am I wrong about this? Albert Albert, I'll have to play with this. When I used gnc in my shoot, everything was underexposed, initially. I opened up and the problem went away. Maybe I did something that wasn't affecting the cng mode. I'll fool around this weekend to see if I can replicate what I did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted May 2, 2007 Share #15 Posted May 2, 2007 great... i will try it this weekend as well adn we can compare notes.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 3, 2007 Share #16 Posted May 3, 2007 Bill, Here is the picture using GnC, with the flash bounce to the white wall behind me. Cat Face photo - Jerry Justianto photos at pbase.com thanks for your advice!! Jerry, this pic is terrific, and the gnc did it just right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted May 5, 2007 Share #17 Posted May 5, 2007 Bill & Co- I did a few experiments last night with the M8 and the Metz 54MZ with M5 adapter... The purpose of the experiments was to determine whether the traditional manners of VARYING the flash exposure (namely, change the aperture of the lens, change the EV setting on the M8 and /or changing the EV on the Metz) actually work and if one or the other is preferable. In addition, I tested the ability to bouce with and without the secondary/fill (frontal) light source. My results are as follows: 1. M8 in Manual with Metz in Auto: All three ways of varying the exposure work equally well. Also bouce with or without the secondary/fill (frontal) flash works without a problem. The M5 adaptor sets the ISO but you determine the f/stop that is suitable for the photo you want and THEN set the lens's aperture to the same f/stop. IF THE M8 is SET TO AUTO, then the speed is automatically set to 1/60 but again both the exposure changes and bounce capabilities remain. 2. M8 in Manual with Metz in Manual+GNC: Here is the surprise... None of the exposure varying techniques work! firstly since you are in manual, the Metz does not even offer EV change capability. Second if you change the lens's aperture, the camera automatically compensates for this during the pre-flash. both of these are adn were expected but the EV change on the camera would have been thought to have remained independent and hnece the way to vary your exposure. But, I tried multiple shots at o +3EV and -3Ev and the histograms were identical (yes the info did show that the camera had made the requisite Ev adjustments....) Ironically, both bounce and bounce with secondary/fill (frontal) flash worked nicely, belying the admonition from Metz that you can't use the secondary/fill (frontal) reflector in GNC mode (maybe I misunderstood the Metz instruction booklet on GNC use/limitations...) Conclusion: 1. Auto mode allows accurate and repoducilbe flash with 3 independent and EQUALLY EFFECTIVE means of varying the exposure (lens aperture correction, and both M8 and Metz EV changes). Bounce flash and bounce with fill (frontal) is also allowed. Aperture priority for the M8 is superfluous as it limits you to 1/60... 2. Manual+GNC just allows the programmed flash without the benefits of exposure modulation. Bounce and bounce plus fill work effectively. 3. Seems that M8 manual with auto is the only sane way to proceed. Manual +GNC is not open to modification and should be avoided IMHO.... Comments.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 5, 2007 Share #18 Posted May 5, 2007 Albert, thanks for this. I was about to undertake a like task when you completed it. I like Auto mode as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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