How to (eventually) afford the best Leica you can get

[AlanJW]

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I don't quite understand what you (OP) mean by "best" lens. There is no such thing. Most expensive (you mention Noctilux as if it were the last thing to aspire to) does not mean best. Unless there is something in your photographic vision that absolutely requires f/0.95 50mm.

I would think that if you got a nice 35mm Zeiss or CV or Summicron, or a 50mm and use it for a year or two you will learn a lot and maybe not need anything else. This is from someone with very bad GAS by the way, so make up your own mind.

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[pico]

:eek:

 

I'm all ears. So what's the story?

 

Perhaps it was acceptable technique during the development of the photo essay concept, but Smith manipulated images in printing to the extent of sandwiching negatives to place persons there when they were not. He also retouched to move eyes away from the camera, and staged very many pictures that would not exist otherwise. When he was asked about his long shoot of Charlie Chaplin, he complained that couldn't stage-manage the shoot as he usually did when he was in the field.

 

His use of meth and alcohol was well-known. Some say it came about from an undisclosed injury while doing war photography. I give him a break on that, but the addiction could explain his entirely self -centeredness, or vice-versa.

[pico]

But the point is to use it as an annually "disposable" lens - you sell it on at the end of every year, buy a different model and use just that for the next year.

 

Well, that's not a cost-effective process. It is just GAS enabling rationalization.

 

As for the body, I have no worries: I had an M8 but we just didn't get on. Until technology advances sufficiently for Leica to make a digital M the same size as a film one, I am using only a film M. I have the Canons from work for digital should I need it.

 

The size difference is insignificant between models, especially if one thinks a digital Canon is a good size.

[Ruhayat]

The size difference is insignificant between models, especially if one thinks a digital Canon is a good size.

 

Well, firstly, I used the M8 exclusively for B&W with the 35mm Nokton 1.2 as a sort of poor man's Noctilux and all was well at first. But eventually, with those dimensions and heft, I figured I might as well use my Pentax K5 with its pancake (very small) or the 50 Cron-R (even though the B&W jpegs out of camera don't quite compare to the beauty of the M8 pairing).

 

Secondly, I'm a graphic designer and have been very picky about the weight/balance of pencils and pens since my school days. So maybe I'm just a bit more sensitive to the tactile experience. When I held a used M4P in a shop for the first time without knowing anything about it, I could feel it was smaller and lighter in my hand than my M6TTL. The difference in feel between my current M6 (classic version) and the M7 I used to have was also tangible to me, even though the specs on paper wouldn't suggest that.

 

So when I finally got to the M8, I found that I just couldn't get over the fatness. And the shutter sound! Dear Lord. I hated that camera every moment I shot with it. It took gorgeous photos, no doubt, but I just hated the experience of using it. Going back to the M6 was like a soothing balm.

 

My first M was the M6TTL, which I shot with exclusively for two years with just a 90mm Summicron, no less. I learned a lot during that period given the restrictions imposed (couldn't afford another lens, not having heard of Voigtlander yet at the time), and I learned a lot about that particular focal length, too. The peace of mind of not having to think when I pick it up to go out and shoot was liberating.

[Ruhayat]

I don't quite understand what you (OP) mean by "best" lens. There is no such thing. Most expensive (you mention Noctilux as if it were the last thing to aspire to) does not mean best. Unless there is something in your photographic vision that absolutely requires f/0.95 50mm.

 

"Best" meaning the best lenses that Leica makes today.

 

I would think that if you got a nice 35mm Zeiss or CV or Summicron, or a 50mm and use it for a year or two you will learn a lot and maybe not need anything else. This is from someone with very bad GAS by the way, so make up your own mind.

 

That's one of my goals, really (the other is peace of mind; freed from buyer's remorse and owner's guilt at spending so much on lenses, some of which I use for a few days and then never pick up again).

[AlanJW]

"Best" meaning the best lenses that Leica makes today.

.

 

But what does "best" mean? Best Focal length? Aperture? Sharpness? Shallowest depth of field? Focus shift? Whether you like the bokeh? Easiest to focus? Corner to corner vs center sharpness? Color rendition? Price? How it draws on a particular sensor? Resistance to flare? Who knows what else?

[pico]

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"Best" meaning the best lenses that Leica makes today.

 

I write this with respect, and sympathy: Leica's idea of the best lens today seems to be a goal to exceed optical performance of all other lenses regardless of how their lenses render three-dimensional subjects. That means prestige for Leica and some photographers, but irrelevance to those who are sensitive to renderings.

 

Perfection is death.

[otto.f]

But what does "best" mean? Best Focal length? Aperture? Sharpness? Shallowest depth of field? Focus shift? Whether you like the bokeh? Easiest to focus? Corner to corner vs center sharpness? Color rendition? Price? How it draws on a particular sensor? Resistance to flare? Who knows what else?

 

In an academic sense you are right Alan, but in fact Leica's best lenses are more or less known. It is indeed a combination of MDF-graphs, distortion, flare, etc. So among the best evaluated are the 280/4.0 R, APO-Elmarit R 180 latest, Apo-Telyt 135/3.4 M, Macro-Elmarit R 100, Summicron 90 SAA R or M, Summicron 28 M, Elmarit 24 M.

And then there are the lenses that are legendary because of 'character', like for instance Apo-Telyt 180/4.0 R or Summicron 35 M pre-asph, Summilux 75 M or 80 R. Anyway, the relation with price is not linear.

Pico's statement Perfection Is Death holds only for the Summicron 75, IMHO.

[NZDavid]

...So when I finally got to the M8, I found that I just couldn't get over the fatness....

 

To each their own but the differences among the Leica M models are minimal. In every day shooting you seldom notice them.

 

It makes some sense to reckon on having to upgrade digital bodies -- though, I hope at longer intervals than three years -- since computer technology is constantly changing.

 

But I would keep a lens, unless I really found I was not using it that much.

[Jeff S]

After using the M8.2 for four years, I now find the film Ms a bit too skinny. Glass half full.

 

Jeff

[bill]

Glass half empty... The perfect digital Leica would have the body thickness of the film M with a protruding mount. It would have no video or live view, nor an EVF. It would roll back the physical and feature-bloat of the current digital Ms and put Leica back on track.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Jeff S]

Well, after a long period, the crop factor went from glass half empty to half full. One step at a time.

 

Jeff

[bill]

Did I mention crop factor? I think not. It would just be nice when Leica again produces cameras for photographers first.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Jeff S]

Yes you did here.

 

I mention the crop because it was repeatedly one of your many M8 pet peeves. Then it disappeared from your list in our recent exchange, now finally with an explanation.

 

Jeff

[bill]

Ah yes, I forgot you were my self-appointed archivist/stalker. You are quoting me out of context. As usual.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Jeff S]

Archiving from a 3 day old post? Dementia hasn't set in yet, especially regarding one of your oft repeated peeves.

 

I don't know much about Fuji but doesn't that cropped X-E1 have video, microphone, autofocus, and such? You would think that they would want to put photographers first. See, I just archived from a few posts ago.

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

The perfect digital Leica would have the body thickness of the film M with a protruding mount.

 

Bet my digital M, gladly without the unnecessary case, is as thin or thinner than your Luigi-coddled film M.

 

It's all about personal preferences, not one size fits all arguments, so to speak.

 

To each his/her own.

 

Jeff

[Rick]

IConcentrate on printing, printing papers, framing, how to present my prints, where do I hang them, etc.

 

With all due respect, you just aren't printing enough. Don't suggest this or you will burry him in debt. This printer GAS habit will eat you alive.

 

Printers, papers, mattes, ink, supplies, mat cutters, rollers, tables... oh, computers, programs, RIP programs, networks, back-up drives... oh, frames, glass, staple and brad guns, miter saws, rules and straight edges... oh, work space and lights and...

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[Ruhayat]

I write this with respect, and sympathy: Leica's idea of the best lens today seems to be a goal to exceed optical performance of all other lenses regardless of how their lenses render three-dimensional subjects. That means prestige for Leica and some photographers, but irrelevance to those who are sensitive to renderings.

 

Perfection is death.

 

+1. It's why I prefer Mandler lenses to the present grouping. The only current lens I would buy would be the 28mm Summicron. The others (disclaimer: I have only tried the 50mm and 90mm) seem too clinical to my eyes. They make shots on film look digital.

 

The Summarit line is quite another thing, though (the best value Leica makes today?). I really like my 75mm Summarit. I like my Mandler 90mm even more, but these days I find myself carrying the 75mm more because of the size and weight. The 90 has also developed a rattling in the front, so I have shelved it for now.

[Ruhayat]

Well, I've gone and done it. This year I am limiting myself to the following set ups (baby steps . Hopefully next year I can retire the backup MDa, too):

 

1. Leica M6 with 75mm Summarit

2. Leica MDa with 35mm Biogon (for backup and travel)

3. Canon Elan 7e with 85mm EF 1.8 (for events, I sometimes need auto focus)

 

Everything else have been benched, sold off or reassigned under company assets for video shooting.