With friends like this, who needs enemies?

[CalArts 99]

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My friend, sensing a photo opportunity, surreptitiously placed his X1 on his table and roughly framed the two ladies in the monitor ... using his standard pre-set auto everything camera settings. I should add that he has long mastered his X1 and is well used to surreptitious snapping in such situations.

 

Whilst conversing to his wife and with clandestine dexterity he took a whole series of photographs of the two ladies ... with the camera still perched beside him on the edge of the table and aimed towards the gesticulating chatterboxes.

 

The resultant photographs are a wonderfully satisfying record of the 'goings on'. The photographs could probably be bettered by an X Vario by virtue of its variable focal length settings ... but it's highly unlikely (in those circumstances) that they could have been bettered or equalled by a manual focus rangefinder camera.

 

 

I do that kind of thing all the time with my M4.

 

Surprising how quick one can be with the film Ms (without having to look through the rangefinder; the lenses have such excellent distance and aperture engravings.) With the X2 one can't be 100% sure of where it will focus despite which AF point mode one uses. It's still can be kind of hit or miss. X2 zone focus is okay but not ideal, imho. You do know your focus with the M and the lens you're using, plus its angle of view, etc..

 

Nonetheless, I really like using the X2 a lot and of course it does have the auto ISO settings which give it a big advantage in that respect. Although I hope a new firmware update will give it some higher shutter speed options. Wishful thinking.

 

Still yet to see anyone successfully use the camera as a impromptu "street shooting" machine. I tried it a couple of times dusk/night situations and dark contrasty allies etc the camera's shortcomings were very evident. As for kids and dogs on the move , forget it

Despite this I do see how many will enjoy using this camera and meets most needs. It even makes a visual impact on a credit card printout:D

 

I don't find it to be that great for this kind of work. I feel I'm much faster with my M film cameras. Just my personal observation. The camera is a bit slow overall. Plus the camera seems to turn itself off always at the worst time for me (despite that I have it set to the longest time of 10 minutes.) I'm constantly depressing the shutter release halfway all the time now as second nature just to keep it awake. It's unfortunate that the 'auto power off' function doesn't have an option to turn it off altogether. I do really like it for more contemplative and static subject matter in urban environments. Despite some irritations, it's still very pleasurable to use. The lens is really good, imho.

[colonel]

Still yet to see anyone successfully use the camera as a impromptu "street shooting" machine. I tried it a couple of times dusk/night situations and dark contrasty allies etc the camera's shortcomings were very evident. As for kids and dogs on the move , forget it

Despite this I do see how many will enjoy using this camera and meets most needs. It even makes a visual impact on a credit card printout:D

 

I have great difficulty with this statement.

The X-vario is ideal for street photography and the zoom takes it to the next level.

I find it faster in use then the M.

All cameras have a learning curve, not a 5min run.

 

 

 

 

[dkCambridgeshire]

I do that kind of thing all the time with my M4.

 

Surprising how quick one can be with the film Ms (without having to look through the rangefinder; the lenses have such excellent distance and aperture engravings.) .

 

But ... film M cameras require manual 'wind on' for every exposure ... whereas the X series do not. And 'guessing' the actual view whilst sitting at a table and maintaining it accurately after each wind-on ... not easy ... far easier with an X series ... even if it does turn itself 'off' and requires switching 'on' again.

 

dunk

[colonel]

I don't find it to be that great for this kind of work. I feel I'm much faster with my M film cameras. Just my personal observation. The camera is a bit slow overall. Plus the camera seems to turn itself off always at the worst time for me (despite that I have it set to the longest time of 10 minutes.) I'm constantly depressing the shutter release halfway all the time now as second nature just to keep it awake. It's unfortunate that the 'auto power off' function doesn't have an option to turn it off altogether. I do really like it for more contemplative and static subject matter in urban environments. Despite some irritations, it's still very pleasurable to use. The lens is really good, imho.

 

I believe you are talking about the X2 here.

With all compact and CSC cameras I have used, except the 6D, e.g. the Fuji's, RX1 and X-Vario, I always switch off between shots. This is essential in any event to save batteries if you are using the LCD or a none eye start EVF.

Start up time on the XV is very fast and because the settings are on the dials I am changing the settings if required in the sub-seconds before it switches on.

 

I would go so far to say the XV is an ideal street camera, the zoom additionally takes it to the next level

[colonel]

But ... film M cameras require manual 'wind on' for every exposure ... whereas the X series do not. And 'guessing' the actual view whilst sitting at a table and maintaining it accurately after each wind-on ... not easy ... far easier with an X series ... even if it does turn itself 'off' and requires switching 'on' again.

 

dunk

 

+ and there will be howls of protest, but RF cameras require you to look through the rangefinder. Waist level auto focus is much faster and much more subtle, with or without using the LCD.

 

I know that experienced RF folk (inc. me) can zone focus but it does not generate the same rate of keepers as AF or allow the correct but subtle framing of a non-face level EVF.

 

part of the fun of the RF is mastering the tool. But the X-Vario allows more time on the composition, as the camera is doing more brilliantly.

 

lastly did I mention that the XV shutter is virtually silent (a slight tick). Quieter then any M camera, film or digital.

[iforum]

Pretty conservative shooting there colonel, what you are presenting is safety "drive by shooting"

 

What I do and any street shooter worth his/her salt is get down, get dirty, get abused grovel for a shot, no time to compose, instinct stuff etc and here the camera loses out.

 

All cameras have a learning curve, not a 5min run.

A very presumptuous comment there, learning curves are minimal once one is familiar with a variety of cameras

[CalArts 99]

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But ... film M cameras require manual 'wind on' for every exposure ... whereas the X series do not. And 'guessing' the actual view whilst sitting at a table and maintaining it accurately after each wind-on ... not easy ... far easier with an X series ... even if it does turn itself 'off' and requires switching 'on' again.

 

I've been using the 14408 on my M6 for a while now. It eliminates that issue of manual wind and is great for quick 'urban style' photography (I hate calling it street photography; as Winogrand once said, "If I photograph an animal am I a zoo photographer?" ) The Motor-M is really quick nice and adds some ergonomics. But I do know what you are trying to say. It's just that I find myself to be really fast with a film M and it's never been an issue whether 'guess-framing' or zone focusing. And speaking of Winogrand, his technique is blazing fast with the M4. I think everyone has their skill set for a specific style and tool set. So I'm sure it's going to be different for each individual.

 

 

I believe you are talking about the X2 here.

With all compact and CSC cameras I have used, except the 6D, e.g. the Fuji's, RX1 and X-Vario, I always switch off between shots. This is essential in any event to save batteries if you are using the LCD or a none eye start EVF.

Start up time on the XV is very fast and because the settings are on the dials I am changing the settings if required in the sub-seconds before it switches on.

 

I would go so far to say the XV is an ideal street camera, the zoom additionally takes it to the next level

 

Yeah, I was talking about the X2 and not the XV. The turning off is very irritating to me. But I have somewhat resolved it as I mentioned by kind of subconsciously tapping the shutter release every once in a while. I don't have that issue with the X100s and when it does shut off, it's a lot faster to turn back on. But I always carry an extra battery in my pocket when out with either of them (the life of the X100s battery is abysmal.)

 

Anyway, I just find myself much faster with analog cameras (i.e., the M4 and M6.) Granted I've been using a film M since I was a teenager so I've developed my own strategies.

 

I like the X2 a lot. And again, I think the lens is very good. I imagine the lens on the XV is just as good or maybe even better. Zooms do seem to slow me down (there's a second or so to decide to zoom and the time for the lens to react, etc..) But I understand the convenience and why they are so popular. I think the XV will end up being a very well-liked option for many people.

[colonel]

Pretty conservative shooting there colonel, what you are presenting is safety "drive by shooting"

 

What I do and any street shooter worth his/her salt is get down, get dirty, get abused grovel for a shot, no time to compose, instinct stuff etc and here the camera loses out.

 

A very presumptuous comment there, learning curves are minimal once one is familiar with a variety of cameras

 

There was no time to compose here !

All street photography is drive by, the only other type is posing.

I am not sure what limitation of the XV would not make what you describe a great success.

 

I thought the throw away comments here on the XV are quite presumptious.

Every camera has its quirks, although you are right, an experienced user will have a faster 0-60mph.

 

Of course my photos are strictly amateur, but I don't think endless B&W pictures of tramps are the be all and end all of street photography (in fact I dislike them).

 

I have only had the camera a week. I find it perfect for fast response "no time to pose" shots. I used an M8 and M9 for three years.#

I showed these shots merely to note that I had zero time to get the shot before being noticed and/or losing the moment.

 

I will post more "dirty high contrast B&Ws" at some point.

[iforum]

colonel what you are doing is walking out in a street and shooting safety first style as is photographing sleeping tramps etc are.

Looking at your site it is evident that you are a photographer not a "street shooting ongo bongo man" Nothing wrong with what you do but you don't push to the edge and the limitations of cameras.

 

Photographing those out full song swinging bottles, the party girls out in the streets,protests,the ups and downs of living and playing in the streets etc are a different ball game, here the manual m9, m8, Epson rangefinder come into their own as do the little Ricoh GR range. Fast lenses close up is the name of the game not sitting back hiding behind a slow zoom

[wattsy]

My friend, sensing a photo opportunity, surreptitiously placed his X1 on his table and roughly framed the two ladies in the monitor ... using his standard pre-set auto everything camera settings. I should add that he has long mastered his X1 and is well used to surreptitious snapping in such situations.

 

Sounds terribly sneaky to me. If the photo was worth taking (and I'm not sure a photo of women chatting at a restaurant table is ever a masterpiece in the making) pick up the camera and take the photo in the 'normal' manner. Maybe your "friend" should invest in one of those angle finder things so he can pretend to be taking a photo of something else altogether?

[bill]

+ and there will be howls of protest, but RF cameras require you to look through the rangefinder. Waist level auto focus is much faster and much more subtle, with or without using the LCD.

 

"require"?

 

Really?

 

May I direct you to a book called "Shots from the Hip" by "Johnny Stiletto". There is also an inferior modern reprint called "Vintage 80s; London street photography" - the first is far better, the second has been insensitively hacked about by modern 12-year-old editors. Please buy one or the other, read it and take it in. Mr "Stiletto" was a regular columnist in AP years ago, known for his "one roll a day" habit with an Olympus OM SLR.

 

There is nothing "fast" about AF compared to zone-focussing. Certainly there is nothing about an RF, SLR, or indeed any other sort of camera with a proper viewfinder that "requires" it to be held to the eye. Reading back over your posts I think you confuse the "three Ts" - Technology, Technique and Talent - certainly you seem to set far more store by technology to get the image than by the other two.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[colonel]

"require"?

 

Really?

 

May I direct you to a book called "Shots from the Hip" by "Johnny Stiletto". There is also an inferior modern reprint called "Vintage 80s; London street photography" - the first is far better, the second has been insensitively hacked about by modern 12-year-old editors. Please buy one or the other, read it and take it in. Mr "Stiletto" was a regular columnist in AP years ago, known for his "one roll a day" habit with an Olympus OM SLR.

 

There is nothing "fast" about AF compared to zone-focussing. Certainly there is nothing about an RF, SLR, or indeed any other sort of camera with a proper viewfinder that "requires" it to be held to the eye. Reading back over your posts I think you confuse the "three Ts" - Technology, Technique and Talent - certainly you seem to set far more store by technology to get the image than by the other two.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Bill, you are the person talking about being able to talk about the pros and cons of cameras feature without being a fan boy ?

 

And you do completely the opposite, being the resident troll here

 

Your technique, repeated again and again, is to jump in to heavily critise any new digital Leica (which you have never owned).

When anyone has the temerity to respond to King William's pronouncements, you reply by instantly resorting to personal attack and insults.

 

Nothing I have said has any relevance to what you have posted above.

 

It is plainly evident to anyone that fast AF is faster then any MF. If you can't see that then that says alot about your "opinions".

Of course pre-focus is better then any focus, but thats just a necessary evil for cameras that are not fast enough.

 

And I am not going to lower myself to cricise your photography skills, despite the temptation.

[colonel]

colonel what you are doing is walking out in a street and shooting safety first style as is photographing sleeping tramps etc are.

Looking at your site it is evident that you are a photographer not a "street shooting ongo bongo man" Nothing wrong with what you do but you don't push to the edge and the limitations of cameras.

 

Photographing those out full song swinging bottles, the party girls out in the streets,protests,the ups and downs of living and playing in the streets etc are a different ball game, here the manual m9, m8, Epson rangefinder come into their own as do the little Ricoh GR range. Fast lenses close up is the name of the game not sitting back hiding behind a slow zoom

 

hmmm.

"slow zoom" - repeating the mantra !!

The GR is f2.8 at 28mm. The XV is f3.5 at 28mm and can comfortably shoot B&W at 6400, so hardly a difference.

So that is a spurious comparison to say the least.

 

99% (yeah no evidence for the actual number, probably 100%) of people shooting news in conflicts zones or protests use DSLRs. As I would if I wanted to be more guaranteed to catch the "decisive moment".

 

All the others use iphones. Infinitely slower then the XV.

[Guest badbob]

There's an old English phrase "by hook or by crook" that basically says getting the shot is the key, whatever the means. And here in the last several posts I find that not only can I get X Vario 'street' photos "by hook or by crook", I can do so in an almost leisurely manner. And so my investment increased in value with no effort on my part.

[CalArts 99]

Yeah, I think that sometimes you just have to get into the trenches. And it's not about snapping away at tramps. It's about doing a project. Not just random exposures for the hell of it. But a photo narrative that has context.

 

While I have a bucketful of crazy and scary stories, I also have an understanding of the urban environment, the people, and the economic and political issues that created that environment. I don't shoot and run, but always try to engage myself with what's going on in front of me and the people I'm photographing.

 

Nonetheless you have to be really quick sometimes or risk getting caught in something you don't want to be caught up in. (I really have a respect for war time photographers )

 

For me, the film Ms are just fast. Maybe it's just that I just need more time with small digital cameras but so far it's just a bit too slow and unpredictable with them. But again, I do like the X2 for more static and contemplative type of work.

 

M6 with 50mm Summicron:

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[colonel]

Yeah, I think that sometimes you just have to get into the trenches. And it's not about snapping away at tramps. It's about doing a project. Not just random exposures for the hell of it. But a photo narrative that has context.

 

While I have a bucketful of crazy and scary stories, I also have an understanding of the urban environment, the people, and the economic and political issues that created that environment. I don't shoot and run, but always try to engage myself with what's going on in front of me and the people I'm photographing.

 

Nonetheless you have to be really quick sometimes or risk getting caught in something you don't want to be caught up in. (I really have a respect for war time photographers )

 

For me, the film Ms are just fast. Maybe it's just that I just need more time with small digital cameras but so far it's just a bit too slow and unpredictable with them. But again, I do like the X2 for more static and contemplative type of work.

 

M6 with 50mm Summicron:

 

nice work, did you take them ?

better you then me

[iforum]

GR is f2.8 at 28mm. The XV is f3.5

The GR can be set up to shoot the fast and furious

probably 100%) of people shooting news in conflicts zones or protests use DSLRs

Not the case Leica rangefinders are still very popular

 

We live in very different photography worlds you still have that clean skin attitude I lost that long ago and my gear suffers under heavy use looks crap but works brilliantly.

 

Despite this I am glad I was in a position to give this offering from Leica a good workout but I cannot live with its limitations.

 

If only it was a digital CL but that was never to be and another story..........

[CalArts 99]

nice work, did you take them ?

better you then me

 

Of course they're mine.

 

They're from a project that was funded by the J Paul Getty Trust and the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts.

 

I would never purposely put myself in physical harm but sometimes shit happens. Especially in certain environments. At the same time one develops a way of communicating with and respecting the people they come in contact with. A big part of working in these urban environments is learning how to interact with all kinds of people (including the authorities.) Using a camera has to come from second nature, there's really no time to fuss around with the tools.

[colonel]

The GR can be set up to shoot the fast and furious

Not the case Leica rangefinders are still very popular

 

We live in very different photography worlds you still have that clean skin attitude I lost that long ago and my gear suffers under heavy use looks crap but works brilliantly.

 

Despite this I am glad I was in a position to give this offering from Leica a good workout but I cannot live with its limitations.

 

If only it was a digital CL but that was never to be and another story..........

 

sure

 

everyone likes different things and has a different focus (no pun intended!)

 

I still maintain the XV is very fast to shoot Swtich on and ready to go,

FL, Aperture and Speed can be set even before, or while it is switching on.

 

I would be interested in your pictures if you have a link

 

best rgds

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[dkCambridgeshire]

Sounds terribly sneaky to me. If the photo was worth taking (and I'm not sure a photo of women chatting at a restaurant table is ever a masterpiece in the making) pick up the camera and take the photo in the 'normal' manner. Maybe your "friend" should invest in one of those angle finder things so he can pretend to be taking a photo of something else altogether?

 

You are pre-judging the methodology and you have not seen the results ... and it was not just 'one' photo. My friend 'played the percentages' hoping that a few frames out of 25 ish would be usable ... and an argument could be made that all candid photographs are 'sneaky'.

 

The degree of sneakiness is up the individual. There are no hard and fast rules in photography and taking pictures 'in the normal manner' is not obligatory.

 

Thank you for the suggestion that my friend should consider using 'one of those angle finder things' . That is a very impractical suggestion for the circumstances in which he took the series of pictures. And we are primarily discussing X series cameras which do not require the use of any form of accessory finder if used eg on a table.

 

And with respect, if you are 'not sure a photo of women chatting at a restaurant table is ever a masterpiece in the making', you should maybe have a look around you and look a bit closer. You dismiss my friend's efforts without good reason and without seeing his results. I can assure you it was a worthwhile exercise.

 

My friend is a Leica Forum member.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk