With friends like this, who needs enemies?

[dkCambridgeshire]

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So, just to be clear on this concept, this:

 

 

 

...is a subjective opinion, yes? With no basis in fact formed from testing every compact or CSC camera?

 

Just want to be sure.

 

As to sales, what "pent up demand" could there really have been - generated by the abysmally ill-judged advertising campaign? I can accept - as demonstrable fact - that a number have been sold, but the true measure will be how many are returned in the coming weeks, or find their way on to eBay.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

 

Rather a reluctant sounding admission (about the sales) ... and wishful thinking about their destiny?

 

dunk

[Guest badbob]

This is getting interesting. Any thoughts on how the X1 was announced and took so long to deliver, and how they had stock ready to sell so quickly with the XV? I wasn't paying attention with the X2, so I don't know if they delivered those quickly like the XV, or more slowly like the X1? Just curious whether those are factors in the ultimate sales numbers.

[dkCambridgeshire]

This is getting interesting. Any thoughts on how the X1 was announced and took so long to deliver, and how they had stock ready to sell so quickly with the XV? I wasn't paying attention with the X2, so I don't know if they delivered those quickly like the XV, or more slowly like the X1? Just curious whether those are factors in the ultimate sales numbers.

 

Leica's factory in Portugal has increased its production capacity compared to when the X1 was first manufactured. The X Vario's resultant 'availablity', i.e., as a major new Leica product, is probably unprecedented.

 

dunk

[bill]

Rather a reluctant sounding admission (about the sales) ... and wishful thinking about their destiny?

 

...you are mixing me up with someone who has an emotional attachment to the subject.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[colonel]

So, just to be clear on this concept, this:

 

...is a subjective opinion, yes? With no basis in fact formed from testing every compact or CSC camera?

 

Just want to be sure.

 

As to sales, what "pent up demand" could there really have been - generated by the abysmally ill-judged advertising campaign? I can accept - as demonstrable fact - that a number have been sold, but the true measure will be how many are returned in the coming weeks, or find their way on to eBay.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

 

every opinion is subjective

I have used intensively X100, X-E1, X-Pro1, RX1, OM-D, E-PL2, Nex-5N, Nex-5, GX1 and many others. Sad yes but it puts me in a position to have a good view and has a significant basis in fact. Why don't you go into a shop and try the XV MF system ?

 

Feedback from owners seems good, so speculating on high ebay returns is merely trying to tarnish the camera's reputation further with no evidence (ebay is clean BTW even of new cameras, which is a sign that dealers are not dumping)

 

Bill, you seem to have something against all digital Leicas from my experience of your posts over the last few years. Obviously the XV is your latest target.

 

for me, and others, the XV ticks many boxes, zoom, build and image quality.

 

Lets take even the "slow lens issue"

 

The XV is f3.5 where the Coolpix A, GR and X2 are f2.8 (X2 at 35mm).. That's only 0.75 stops slower, but as the ISO sensitivity of the XV is 1 stop better then the X2, (according to Reid who I respect). Therefore you are effectively more then square. But you get much better build quality, 30fps hidef video, 3" hidef LCD screen and the rest of the zoom range thrown in for only 25% more. Seems good to me from a Leica perspective, maybe not from a Canon one but we know that right ?

[bill]

...

Bill, you seem to hate all digital Leicas from my experience of your posts over the last few years. Obviously the XV is your latest target. and for some reason it does seem to be emotional.

...

 

*sigh*

 

We have been around this one before, but to summarise just for you.

 

- The M8 was a necessary evil at best - flawed in too many ways

- The M8.2 was an improvement but still a stop gap

- The M9 was so nearly there - I eye the secondhand prices occasionally

- The Monochrom is a stroke of genius

- The M is a retrograde step (don't bother to ask - I have made my feelings clear)

- The XV is a badly launched disappointment

 

I'm happy with my film Leicas and Nikon, and my Fujis and Ricoh. Unlike you I don't hop from camera to camera, brand to brand like a bee on speed.

 

As to "significant basis in fact" - I breathe the same air as Dr Kaufmann therefore I have a significant insight into what is coming next...

 

As to my attitude to Leica as a brand - tell me, are you joining us in Wetzlar in October...?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[colonel]

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Bill,

I think it's clear where you stand and thus the efficacy of your digital views.

you really should get out with a Leica digital camera.

 

if you discount so easily real hands on knowledge that's a shame. As most people recognise this as the best, if not the only, way to obtain knowledge of comparison.

perhaps just once you can admit the other fellow.

 

I do remember once you agreed with me on mac vs PC.

 

best Rgds

[bill]

Bill,

I think it's clear where you stand and thus the efficacy of your digital views.

 

Really?

 

you really should get out with a Leica digital camera.

 

...when they make one I genuinely want rather than just one I can afford...

 

For the record, I don't discount REAL "hands-on" EXPERIENCE. The "knowledge" to which you lay claim requires INSIGHT which comes with TIME. Thus I respect the opinions of Jono, Ming Thein, Sean Reid etc. who are not prone to hyperbole, exaggeration, sweeping generalisations or jumping to conclusions.

 

There is little of any of the above that can be built up by flitting restlessly from one camera/brand to the other and never finding satisfaction.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

[colonel]

Really?

 

...when they make one I genuinely want rather than just one I can afford...

 

For the record, I don't discount REAL "hands-on" EXPERIENCE. The "knowledge" to which you lay claim requires INSIGHT which comes with TIME. Thus I respect the opinions of Jono, Ming Thein, Sean Reid etc. who are not prone to hyperbole, exaggeration, sweeping generalisations or jumping to conclusions.

 

There is little of any of the above that can be built up by flitting restlessly from one camera/brand to the other and never finding satisfaction.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

 

what do you know about my satisfaction

and what do you know about what I shoot

and what has hyperbole got to do with this

 

I am not sure what you mean by time. I would say that anyone who doesn't know the camera they are using after 1 month will never know

 

many of the people you quote use it for less then a week before writing an in depth review

[bill]

I shall let others answer.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest badbob]

...many of the people you quote use it for less then a week before writing an in depth review

 

Luminous Landscape had an initial article suggesting caution, then after the Internet seemed to be flooded with negative comments, they published a very favorable review, almost like an antidote to the poison being spread around. They will be good to watch for future commentary, because they let the gimmicks wear off, and long term they stick with the items that have better optical performance.

[colonel]

Luminous Landscape had an initial article suggesting caution, then after the Internet seemed to be flooded with negative comments, they published a very favorable review, almost like an antidote to the poison being spread around. They will be good to watch for future commentary, because they let the gimmicks wear off, and long term they stick with the items that have better optical performance.

 

yes, they are not bad

but there is a load of personal stuff.

Sean Reid is still the benchmark

[CalArts 99]

In a previous post I mentioned the courtroom concept of being argumentative, but there's another legal term that helps here too. It's called good faith. The things you say are acceptable because "everyone does it anyway" I call bad faith. And someone who exhibits bad faith and unwillingness to contribute anything other than being argumentative - they can justifiably be removed from the conversation. It's not difficult to grasp that, if you are taking the time to grasp something.

 

Acceptable? I never said the action itself was acceptable. I already stated I don't condone it. But I do accept that stating an 'opinion' without 'any facts' is part of human nature. I don't accept all the things that humans do, but I accept that they will do them. And I will try to understand why they do it. That's the difference. And that is what I was saying from the very beginning. Unfortunately you misconstrued this as my believing that I felt a particular behavior was appropriate because "everyone does it anyway." No, I don't feel it's appropriate. But I accept that people will do it anyway, and that they do it often. And because of that, I don't let it bother me when it happens.

[dkCambridgeshire]

yes, they are not bad

but there is a load of personal stuff.

Sean Reid is still the benchmark

 

SR also writes for LuLa

 

dunk

[AlanG]

So maybe this camera that just came out in 2013 has a good manual focusing system. Something that also works very well when I use my Nikon macro lens on a Nex 6. Is MF focusing what most buyers of this type of camera have been looking for? Meanwhile Canon has just revolutionized AF sensor technology with its 70D and this will cost about $1100 with a basic zoom.

 

I expect to see Canon drop this same technology into an updated EOS M camera pretty soon producing a small fast AF mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses. We'll have to see if Canon licenses this technology to others and what competitors can come up with before long.

 

The X Vario surely has a good lens, sensor, and electronics so it can make high quality images. Why would anyone expect less? But I don't think that is enough to counter the criticism by those making comparisons based on price, features, and performance.

[colonel]

So maybe this camera that just came out in 2013 has a good manual focusing system. Something that also works very well when I use my Nikon macro lens on a Nex 6. Is that what most buyers of this type of camera have been looking for? Meanwhile Canon has just revolutionized AF sensor technology with its 70D and this will cost about $1100 with a basic zoom.

 

I expect to see Canon drop this same technology into an updated EOS M camera pretty soon producing a small fast AF camera with interchangeable lenses. We'll have to see if Canon licenses this technology to others and what competitors can come up with.

 

It's actually the same Technology that Fuji have in the x100s and Sony have had in he Nex-5R

[AlanG]

It's actually the same Technology that Fuji have in the x100s and Sony have had in he Nex-5R

 

Sorry but not even close. Yes several other cameras, including a few by Canon, have some PD spots on the sensor. My Nex 6 has those too and I know it is not as good as I want it to be. This does not work that way.

[Guest badbob]

Acceptable? I never said the action itself was acceptable. I already stated I don't condone it. But I do accept that stating an 'opinion' without 'any facts' is part of human nature. I don't accept all the things that humans do, but I accept that they will do them. And I will try to understand why they do it. That's the difference. And that is what I was saying from the very beginning. Unfortunately you misconstrued this as my believing that I felt a particular behavior was appropriate because "everyone does it anyway." No, I don't feel it's appropriate. But I accept that people will do it anyway, and that they do it often. And because of that, I don't let it bother me when it happens.

 

When you state the obvious about human nature, you're not actually saying anything, but you're implying a justification. It's actually found in textbooks on logic.

[IkarusJohn]

When you state the obvious about human nature, you're not actually saying anything, but you're implying a justification. It's actually found in textbooks on logic.

 

Give it a miss you guys.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[CalArts 99]

Give it a miss you guys.

 

 

Thank you.