Exhibition prints from digital

[ggetzin]

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I used to have my slides printed on cibachrome. I was satisfied with the

quality and like shooting slides knew pretty much what the results would

be.

 

I have an exhibition coming up next year. My slides have been scanned and I

am shooting most photographs in digital now. Cibachrome appears to be on its

way out. I want to get prints up to that quality of precision. I have tried some

images with professional printers using laser prints and have not been fully

satisfied.

 

I had an Epson printer, I think a 1270, that did nice prints until it went on the

blink. I have read on this forum that using an Epson like a 4800 can probably

do the trick. It is possible for me to spring for one of the higher end Epsons

but I want to see results first. I wonder if there are good professional printers

out there who are capable of communicating in a civilized way where I could

try prints like this or even order all the prints I will use in the show.

 

It appears to me we are in an evolving stage of digital printing which has not caught up

to the quality and consistency of photographic prints. Gary Getzin

[rob_rob]

Gary, you are right about the transitional period between analog and digital.

 

I don't have a concrete answer for you, just a suggestion.

 

I would try to contact Epson, HP, Canon, Kodak, etc. and ask them the same question you've asked us. Perhaps one of them will arrange for you a demo session where you'll be able to print one of your images on their equipment and see for yourself?

 

Good luck!

[jrc]

Digital has caught up on the quality, and has far surpassed any other color printing method on longevity (depending on how much credence you give to accelerated testing) but I think the best digital prints are do-it-yourself. This takes a while to learn; your best shot would be to take a serious class or workshop, of which there are many. I've seen some superb digital color prints; and I also recently saw a digital color print from one of the nation's top printers that had thoroughly clogged-up blacks (which is one reason I think do-it-yourself is the current answer.) If you must have somebody else do it, probably your best shot would be to take one of your more difficult files, contact several printers, and ask them to provide you with test prints. If you plan to do it yourself (and the 4800 is an excellent machine with which to do it) and it you plan an exhibition next year, then you'd better get cracking, because that's not a lot of time to get up to top printing standards. You can also check out Luminous Landscape here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/ and look at the forums on printing and the tutorials. They'll get you started.

 

JC

[vic vic]

hi getzin...

ya, i had those problems some time ago untill i studied the digital workflow properly.

proffessional grade epson scanner or kodak are fantastic. u can trust them, and even buy one for $ 900 with 12x16" prints (or bigger for more $$$). if u want exhebition and pro quality, then it is investment, just like camera.

make sure your scans are very good. unless u use imacon, creo or some drum scanner, i dont think u can go far without silverfast scanning software. preferbly with good scanner of course. software is critical both for scan and for editing.

it is good that everything in your system will be calibrated. scanner, especially if u use slides, monitor, if u use mac osx than at least make sure that your monitor is calibrated with the os-x calibrator (calibration with optical devise is better of course but requeres investment).

next, make sure u color manage everything properly, from scan through monitor and up to the printer. color management itself can be done with photoshop, u can do it with silverfast hdr studio, aperture or any other pro software. and now with the good epson printer u can make exhebition quality print.

 

exept the scanning issue of slides, everything above applies to digital camera too. only that now, it is recomended to calibrate the camera itself if u can. this way u will get the prints that will not disapoint u with your habits from the slides :-) also, from my experince, i can say, that silverfast can get u as close as u can get to the richness of film based photography in digital workflow, wether with scanning or with digital camera.

[ggetzin]

Thanks to all three of you. I have work to do. But the Epsons, from my experience

before with a lower end and earlier machine, seem to have a very nice quality

for my photographs. I may have to invest in the 4800 and get to work. I am not in

a large city and dealing with pro printers on the digital side has not been too

fruitful. Perhaps part of it is that they aren't too sure of themselves yet. I really

haven't seen anything to describe different appearances very well, yet each printer

seems to come up with a different name for prints and quality seems to vary

widely.

 

It is hard work, but maybe it is like the old days with making good prints--

you do it yourself. I would rather concentrate on getting the image like I would

do with slides and say "Here, do it just like this." Cibachrome enabled that.

 

I really appreciate this forum. g

[dhsimmonds]

The advice to "try before you buy" is the correct way for you to go. A lot depends on your personal style of photography. I also used an Epson 1290 for producing exhibition prints which was (and still is) great for colour. However it is essential with all printers to use the right printer "profile" matched to the paper you are using........especially if you are using art papers.

 

However I was never satisfied with the 1290 when producing monochrome prints and so having seen some superb examples of A3 plus, size black and white produced on an Epson 2400 I took the plunge and quite frankly haven't looked back since.........however it is still very neceessary to load the correct drivers for the paper used...........and many papers that can be used on the 1290 are not suitable for the 2400 and probably also the 4000 as well.

 

Hope that this helps. Cheers, Dave

[sully67]

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I am relatively new into the digital game, but I spoke with the art dept photographer at my work who recommended printing digital pictures using a lab that offers Chromira printing. It is generally a few dollars more than a standard print, but the print is on regular photo paper and the results are far better. As far as I understand it, the Chromira process creates a slide from the digital file and then shoots light through the slide to expose the emulsion on traditional photo paper. The result is that you have depth in your images that a regular photo printer won't give you. If you're considering having prints done for an exhibition, I would look into this.

[robert_parker]

Gary

 

Whilst I have no experience of exhibitions, the route I've gone when entering compeitions is to have the digital file processed by a specialist printing house, who seem to get a far better result than those I have seen from PC printers of any make.

 

At this 'half and half' stage in digital photography I cannot think that there is a more effective route to follow.

[hrosell]

Hi Gerhardt,

 

This is my 1st posting (ever) so I hope it will be helpful. Please be flexible with my English..., and with the length of this msge.

 

I think that you can make it, but as somebody already said, you should crack it – your time is limited because if you want to do it right (and provided you have the time and money to spare...) first of all you have to purchase some stuff and learn how to operate them, and then get your pictures printed. This in the end happens to be something a bit of trial and error, particularly at the last stage: only very few printing drivers allow WYSIWIG from PS or whichever software you are using to edit your images.

 

FYG, I am a very good "wet" printer but have been experimenting with digital printing for the past year and a half, after a good deal of research on products. You see, in my country whatever you use in this field has to be imported and you end paying anywhere between 60 – 100 % over the original price tag in the USA.

 

Anyhow, this is the outfit I am using nowadays:

 

– Apple G5 dual 2.0 Ghz with 4 GB RAM (OSX 10.4 but 10.3 works fine)

– Epson Stylus 4000 Pro (but you should try the 4800 which is newer, better, and uses a new type of pigment inks with better longevity)

– A dedicated printer driver: ColorByte's ImagePrint V6 RIP (for Raster Image Processor)

– Gretag Macbeth Eye-One Photo to callibrate your monitor (essential!), make output profies, etc.

– Some good desktop viewer, mine is Graphiclite PDV with reosthat

– Photoshop CS2

– Reindeer Graphics Optipix 3.1 (a very useful set of plug-ins to help you work your pictures on PS)

 

Now, you can use Windows for anything of the above but I personally prefer Mac. In any case, you should load your computer with as much RAM memory as possible, mainly to handle actions in PS and specially if you use Optipix (there is a trial version fully usable for some short time).

Second, I personally believe that Epson printers, particularly the large ones including the 4000/4800 are the standard to which all others compare, and have been already well proved.

Third, to get consistent results you will want to use a color callibrator, and a desktop viewer.

And four: a specialized RIP like ImagePrint makes a difference as you can adjust color inks etc., but it takes a while to get your eye accustomed to it.

 

You may well get very good prints with just a good computer, the 4800 with its own driver, and Photoshop. However, you may find out that everything ads for a very good final result, but Epson must deal with many situations and their driver although very good might probably get about 90 or 92 % out of the printer capabilities. The ImagePrint RIP improves the output up to 97 – 98 % squeezing the most of these 4000/4800 (and other Epson) printers.

 

Finally, a word about papers: there are a lot around there and it will depend on your preferences to use glossy (for color prints), matte or fine art. Since I am mostly doing Fine Art B&W nowadays, my choice are Hahnemuhle cotton rag papers which will give you a different aestthetic approach, both in color and B&W. Usual "Photo Black" inks do not associate well with glossy surfaces for which when using the cotton papers the "Matte Black" will be selected. Both types of black inks (plus another one in the 4800) form part of the usual Epson inkset. As a digression: for B&W you may also use inksets from third parties like Jone Cone's Piezography inks, specially made from carbon pigments with 6 or 7 shades of black/gray for which you should use a shareware printer driver called QuadTone or other much more expensive driver.

In any case, if you intend to do only color for your exhibition, the ColorByte ImagePrint is fantastic and you can get paper profiles (many popular brands included) to match any Epson printer of your choice, including the newer desktop ones. And when about to print, you will choose the paper profile corresponding to the paper you will be using, and the inks will be automatically selected by the program.

 

I cannot but strongly suggest you to take some workshop on digital printing. I have attended one on Dec/2004 with George DeWolfe (The Digital Fine Print Workshop) at Jon Cone's Editions. You may browse their page (which will be rather illustrative even if you are not at all interested in B&W) looking for InkjetMall in Googe or any other. The above mentioned workshop was a huge leap forward for me.

 

Sorry for the length,

 

Best regards,

 

Horacio

 

p.d.: Of course, you can go the easy way and take your images to any pro lab printing with Lambda or alike. But if you happen to go on your own you will may have minor frustrations at first, but you will certainly feel the joy of producing your own pictures from start to finish!

[LKSC]

Gary, have you tried printing on Fujiflex with a Lightjet? Fujiflex closely resembles cibachrome in appearance.

 

As you already have your slides scanned, you might want to try a few test prints at Calypso Imaging (Calypso Imaging on the Web) or West Coast Imaging (West Coast Imaging)

 

Apart from custom printing, both offer direct-to-print services on all their papers on either Lightjet or Epson 9600 at relatively affordable prices. If you have a good color-managed workflow and can use their ICC profiles this is an excellent route.

[hrosell]

Gerhardt,

 

Sorry I missed to tell you that I also use at home a Nikon Super Coolscan 8000 ED to scan color and B&W negatives/positives from 35mm to 6x9 cm and X-Pan panoramics. This one is very good with many qualities of scanning to choose, but there are newer, more complete scanners in the market these days.

 

Regards

 

H.

[ggetzin]

I have a lot of work and decisions to make here. I knew I would get good suggestions but

these are beyond my expectations and of such grreat variety. I have until a year from

now, so if I decide to print myself, there is time. I think eventuallly I will do that,

I don't know if I will have time to develop on my own--but then the control sounds

so good. Thank you.

[imported_peter_m]

Horacio,

 

Very good information, and description of a up town set up

 

I did find a color managed workflow helps a lot to get good and consistent print results on a lower scale set up.

 

Peter

[hrosell]

Peter,

 

Thanks for your comments. I agree, a good color (or B&W) workflow always helps improve the output whatever the set up. And any extra small effort will show in the final print, everything sums up.

 

Horacio