Twilight Posted April 6, 2013 Share #1 Posted April 6, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a M240 on order. I had a M9P for a while to test to see if I would get along with the rangefinder experience. I really liked the output but the responsiveness and IQ above 800 disappointed me. I thought that - being Leica - even with a CMOS sensor the M240 would be certainly as good in the IQ department, so I ordered the M240. However I have not seen much colorphotos with the M240 were I think that the colors, especially the reds and the skintones, are right. Also the crispiness is not there straight out of the camera. Of course I think that working with the RAW files can give me more of the look of the M9 but this means local adjustments (not just tweaking the white balance a bit) and that is somewhat delicate. The fact that people like Puts and Overgaard did not put up there review yet, makes me wonder that there is still something not wright. This morning I went through some of the LFI mastershots with the M9...maybe I don't look good enough but the look of the most of the LFI master shots I cannot find yet with the M240. Are there indicators that new firmware is on his way to 'fix' this or will this be the look we will get. Maybe some 'profile' in LR could help already. Because if then, I maybe shoot get the ME and live with its limitations. Am I alone on this or is this a feeling other people share with me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Hi Twilight, Take a look here Reds and skintones with the M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest malland Posted April 6, 2013 Share #2 Posted April 6, 2013 Early on, I read a posting by someone stating that the Leica M9 CCD color rendition was more like slide film while that from CMSO sensors was more like color negative film. While the sensor may not be the only factor, or even the most important factor, this led me to make the bet that the M-E would be a better camera for me than the M240, particularly considering that I did not want to go through the "shakedown years" of a new digital Leica-M, having seen how long it took to get the M9 through firmware upgrades to its current state. So, I decided to get an M-E, having bought an M-Monochrom last September, but at the end of February found in Paris a new M9-P that was still available at the Leica promotional price that had expired on December 31, and cost only a few hundred dollars (ex-VAT) less than the M-E. Today I would get an M-E, which I would prefer to getting a used M9. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted April 6, 2013 Share #3 Posted April 6, 2013 This has been discussed many times in other threads. As for that lack of crispness you mentioned, I believe is a property of the new sensor and is not fixable via firmware. The color issue however I believe will be resolved in the future. I doubt colors will be the same as M9 even with mature firmwares but it will be good in its own way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted April 6, 2013 Share #4 Posted April 6, 2013 Well, color hues are rather a matter of taste. That said, Leica is probably still working on that mapping. And the Lightroom version (4.4) that includes a proper profile for the M-240 was just released a couple days ago. When the M9 was released - and the M8 before it - a similar process of iteratively working towards a 'final' color mapping was observed. It's a process that usually takes a few months. Part of that is users learning how to manage their post-processing. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "the crispiness is not there straight out of camera." I own the M8, M9, MM, and M-240 and my initial assessment of the M-240 is that the IQ of its files at base iso is moderately better than its color counterparts. The MM continues to reign in the world of black and white, but even there the M-240 is very competitive. I agree the M9 - when used for color imagery - quickly begins to lose its mojo north of iso 800 or thereabouts. The M-240 gives you another stop or so before you get to the same point. There is nothing wrong with the M-240. To the contrary, you have a very special pleasure awaiting you.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted April 6, 2013 I believe it should be possible to extract from the RAW data with a proper profile almost the same image as the M9 would have given, but I wonder if this profile needs to be made for the camera (firmware) or in the developing program (LR/C1). If its in the firmware it will maybe take a while. Does anybody from the bèta testers know more about this being in development or not. I already used the M240 side by side with the M9 and the crispiness is indeed not really sharpness but I feel its more contrast/dynamic range related. So that also probably depends on the developing profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted April 6, 2013 Share #6 Posted April 6, 2013 The "special colors" leica desires are the result of in camera processing or perhaps differing filters over the photosites on the sensor from standard RGB. I really have no way to know. I do know if I mount my R lenses on Nikon, 5 now and counting, and visoflex lenses on Nikon pro bodies, I get Nikon colors, ie plain unadulterated coloration. Put the same lenses on Leica , and I get the special colors. I am referring to "camera neutral" raw and not some special portrait mode or vivid mode and compared to raw data from raw files on the M8 & 9. Leica has no "neutral mode". I can see it in LR or ACR. Then if I change from Adobe standard to embedded mode, the leica files get their "special colors" contrast or whatever they do. I found a website comparing the S2 with Nikons D800. The 800 files looked neutral, the S2 images picked up the cyan looking skies my M8 has. I have some presets in PS I use to get rid of the color casts. They work well. The M9 also has some casts, but they are not as prominent as the M8. From what I have seen in the net, M 240 is much like the M9 if they manage to get exposure and WB exactly the same. Both are very nice cameras. If you do not like the skin tones, then Overgard has published correction amounts on his website. Evidently he does not like them either. The beauty of digital is you can adjust all this to suit your own requirements if you use raw. R lenses work a treat on Nikon and probably other cameras in situations where auto focus is not required. I would rather have an optical VF the EVF so Nikon/Leitax is my R solution. If I did not have Nikon, Canon would probably be the choice as it is a simple mount adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 6, 2013 Share #7 Posted April 6, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Everytime that I looked at the image comparisons on DPReview I was impressed by how they standardized the images to match colors fairly closely. I have concluded that the differences between camera renderings is not always so great and should be adjustable in the raw software or in how the camera is set to process jpegs. Of course there may still be some general differences but are they so significant? (Not to me as I often depart from standardized "looks" when adjusting my raw files for images I really care about and every scene is different.) DXO raw conversion software can simulate the rendering of various cameras and films. So periodically I go through them to see what DXO considers to be the differences in rendering between some. Of course this is just a basic starting point. Here is what one photo looks like in 5DIII rendering and M9 rendering with no other differences. In this case you can see that the 5DIII rendering is pretty flat and I prefer this image more punched up. So if I like the M9 look for these kinds of portraits, I can always use it as my default. But a cooler softer look may be nice at times too. I think the image processing software plays a much larger role in the end product than does the camera's sensor and firmware. And any serious photographer who cares about color generally needs to shoot raw and take time to adjust the images. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/202128-reds-and-skintones-with-the-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2292256'>More sharing options...
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