Max Penson Posted March 30, 2007 Share #1  Posted March 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all,  It seems that my M8 is producing horizontal lines/bands across the frame at high ISO images. the included image was shoot with 2500ISO, but a similar result is also visible at 1250ISO. This happens when the camera is set to B/W or color, it is also visible with any raw software.  Anyone else has this (try looking at flat surfaces)? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20188-horizontal-banding-do-you-have-it-too/?do=findComment&comment=216270'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Hi Max Penson, Take a look here horizontal banding, do you have it too?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted March 30, 2007 Share #2  Posted March 30, 2007 Sorry but I don't see the banding in your image. Could be my monitor at work but here are 2 that show horizontal banding Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20188-horizontal-banding-do-you-have-it-too/?do=findComment&comment=216299'>More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted March 30, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted March 30, 2007 Hi, the screen of my MacBookPro clearly shows the banding. In the past the M8 had several vertical, horizontical and centerfold issues so please use the search function. Â Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Penson Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share #4  Posted March 30, 2007 Ah, not that kind of banding. I am talking about the fine small bands you should see every few pixels. It will be hard to see at 100%, but once the image is views at a small scale it will show up.  I've done some curves to try and emphasize the bands. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20188-horizontal-banding-do-you-have-it-too/?do=findComment&comment=216317'>More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted March 30, 2007 Share #5  Posted March 30, 2007 I have noticed the same. My example...but this is probably ACR's fault and you can't necessarily pick it up through the conversion through JPG. Also note the barndoor effect of the two sensor fields. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20188-horizontal-banding-do-you-have-it-too/?do=findComment&comment=216328'>More sharing options...
robsteve Posted March 30, 2007 Share #6  Posted March 30, 2007 Hi all, It seems that my M8 is producing horizontal lines/bands across the frame at high ISO images. the included image was shoot with 2500ISO, but a similar result is also visible at 1250ISO. This happens when the camera is set to B/W or color, it is also visible with any raw software.  Anyone else has this (try looking at flat surfaces)?  Was the shot properly exposed? If you undersexpose and then try to lighten it up in the raw conversion, you can get this with most cameras at high iso. The RAW processor settings can also have an effect, even on properly exposed files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted March 30, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted March 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Max, you need to find another image with this. The image you have posted appears to me to be the wood grain in the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Penson Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share #8 Â Posted March 30, 2007 I have noticed the same. My example...but this is probably ACR's fault and you can't necessarily pick it up through the conversion through JPG. Also note the barndoor effect of the two sensor fields. Â Â WOW, your image is 320ISO... I think leica corrects this within the pipeline so with jpegs it will show up only at high ISO settings. But I don't think ACR is capable to correct this so it will show up at lower ISO settings. BTW, the D200 also has this at 3200ISO but nikon is correcting it inside the pipeline. when converting a 3200ISO RAW file with ACR, it will show up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted March 30, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted March 30, 2007 It's in the underexposed part of the shirt too, but it's that typical xeroxed look of underexposed areas boosted in ACR or RAW development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Penson Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share #10  Posted March 30, 2007 Ok, this is out of the camera. just a blurry image but has some banding. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20188-horizontal-banding-do-you-have-it-too/?do=findComment&comment=216343'>More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 30, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted March 30, 2007 Never mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted March 30, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted March 30, 2007 Hi all, It seems that my M8 is producing horizontal lines/bands across the frame at high ISO images. the included image was shoot with 2500ISO, but a similar result is also visible at 1250ISO. This happens when the camera is set to B/W or color, it is also visible with any raw software. Anyone else has this (try looking at flat surfaces)? Â Hey--just to hop in. I can reproduce that identical "banding" effect on my M8 when I shoot in darker spaces. I've noticed it for as long as I've had the camera. Seems to manifest like clockwork at ISO1250 and above. Thanks. -Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Penson Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share #13  Posted March 30, 2007 Can I assume this issue is a defective body? Do you think I should send it back?  Here is another example, 2500ISO, jpeg. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20188-horizontal-banding-do-you-have-it-too/?do=findComment&comment=216489'>More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted March 30, 2007 Share #14 Â Posted March 30, 2007 Maybe it's just me, but all those shots seem underexposed. Also, you got IR problems in that last example. See the toaster oven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Penson Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share #15 Â Posted March 30, 2007 Maybe it's just me, but all those shots seem underexposed. Also, you got IR problems in that last example. See the toaster oven. Â Yes, I know about the toaster, it's quite odd . Â It does not matter if the image is underexposed or not, as even a very well exposed image could have very dark zones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted March 30, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted March 30, 2007 I guess my observation has been that this effect is only noticable in underexposed fields in long exposures. I chalked it up to the imperfections of sensor technologies, like that damn barndoor effect on long exposures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Penson Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share #17 Â Posted March 31, 2007 I guess my observation has been that this effect is only noticable in underexposed fields in long exposures. I chalked it up to the imperfections of sensor technologies, like that damn barndoor effect on long exposures. Â Â Well, actually, every ISO setting is an underexposed image. On very dark zones you see less photon signal and more false - non photon signal (coming from the sensor system). I think that barndoor effect is something ACR can't handle. Do you see it on JPEG images too? BTW, try C1 pro, it should handle this barndoor as many digital backs are designed that way (if was configured properly by phase one). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nryn Posted March 31, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted March 31, 2007 FWIW, I routinely saw the same effect on DSLRs when bumping exposure past reasonable limits in RAW processing. I doubt it's anything wrong with the camera, but you might get more substantive opinions if you could post a DNG file at which we could take a look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 31, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted March 31, 2007 Shootist's bands are the "usual" dark green bands when a bright light falls right on the edge of the sensor. Â Max's bands: Â 1) I see them. Â 2) They are the "banding" that Sean Reid reported in his early M8 review before the "bright light banding/blobs/mirror images" issue really blew up in November. Â 3) They are fairly common throughout digital imaging when the light gets low. I got something similar if I tried to "open up" dark Digilux 2 shots, or even in film scans when I tried to suck more tone out of the dense areas of the film (highlights with negs, shadows with slides). Â My M8 does it pretty much only at 2500, or at 1250 IF I try to suck out extra shadow detail. Â There may be some digital camera somewhere that will never do this at some level of low-light exposure - but I haven't come across it yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted March 31, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted March 31, 2007 Max's bands: <snip> 3) They are fairly common throughout digital imaging when the light gets low. I got something similar if I tried to "open up" dark Digilux 2 shots, or even in film scans when I tried to suck more tone out of the dense areas of the film (highlights with negs, shadows with slides). Â Andy--You are right that they do get worse with post-processing an image hard (tinkering with shadow reduction) to bump up the light. (Which one is inclined to do when the scene is dim--and that's when they appear.) Â I will say that I never got these on any of my Digilux 2's images--even the ones I was pushing reasonably hard--so hence my surprise to notice them in M8 files. (I shrugged it off as some "M8" low light thing.) But I'm glad to hear that it's something common to digital imaging in general coupled with shadow reduction in this kind of dim light and not just an "M8 thing." Â Thanks! -- Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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