iedei Posted February 3, 2013 Share #21 Posted February 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) . i have a good friend/leica shooter telling me to go for a M8. which is a whole nothing route.... if any of you have a m8 and have an opinion of first Leica- what do you think? my first Leica "M" was the M8. my 2nd is the M5. i could never shoot film only, so i needed to start with the M8. I use the M5 as an indulgent pleasure or for pure leisure.....whereas I take the M8 with me a lot more. Both are phenomenal cameras......but the M5 is a far more beautiful, majestic, and unique camera. It is easily the most unique Leica M ever made....one of a kind, with no equal in Leica history IMO. The M8 is a much more accessible, functionally 'modern' digital body.......so i think your decision has more to do with whether you want to actually use film or if you want digital for practical reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 3, 2013 Posted February 3, 2013 Hi iedei, Take a look here advice on M5. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sterno Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share #22 Posted February 4, 2013 my first Leica "M" was the M8. my 2nd is the M5. i could never shoot film only, so i needed to start with the M8. I use the M5 as an indulgent pleasure or for pure leisure.....whereas I take the M8 with me a lot more. Both are phenomenal cameras......but the M5 is a far more beautiful, majestic, and unique camera. It is easily the most unique Leica M ever made....one of a kind, with no equal in Leica history IMO. The M8 is a much more accessible, functionally 'modern' digital body.......so i think your decision has more to do with whether you want to actually use film or if you want digital for practical reasons. Ah...so iedei: whats your council of M8 then M5? thus lens investment made, learning the rangefinder itself on the M8 and get immediacy on the images/focusing being you have both- just thinking out loud- not to reboil the film/digital issue which this is not....Thanks.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangur Ban Posted February 4, 2013 Share #23 Posted February 4, 2013 ...whats your council of M8 then M5? thus lens investment made, learning the rangefinder itself on the M8 and get immediacy on the images/focusing being you have both... I too have an M8 and and M5 (along with other film Ms). I bought my M8 after owning film Ms and readily re-learnt about using rangefinders from the film Ms (my father had a Zorki in the 1970s which I used a little in the 1980s). I didn't find any disadvantage in using the film Ms first, though one side-effect is that I much prefer the film Ms to the M8: the noises are all wrong. As a painter I'm sure you're attuned to allowing creativity to have a natural rhythym and are prepared to work towards improvement over a period of time. When you've had time with the M5 then you should consider a IIIa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted February 4, 2013 Share #24 Posted February 4, 2013 Ah...so iedei: whats your council of M8 then M5? thus lens investment made, learning the rangefinder itself on the M8 and get immediacy on the images/focusing being you have both- just thinking out loud- not to reboil the film/digital issue which this is not....Thanks.... i think there are a lot of benefits from learning rangefinder use through digital. the instant feedback for 'trial and error' really has benefits....and it really only took me a few days to really understand how to focus and capture using an M8. I think the M8 is a wonderful camera. It has its limitations (10mp, expensive, crop sensor) but really none of those things interfere with how good it is....especially for B&W. i think if you are already comfortable with using film cameras, then an M5 is an excellent choice. If you are more inclined to want digital or to shoot with digital---then i would say an M8 is a great starting point from that perspective. Either way you cannot go wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ksmart Posted February 4, 2013 Share #25 Posted February 4, 2013 Hm! No simple answer.... In my opinion Leicas from IIIa to M7 are completely incomparable to M8 and followers. The old cameras are simply precision mechanics, M8+ are electronics with a bunch of precision-mechanics-parts. Common are rangefinder and usability of an enormous range of lenses (Leitz, Zeiss, Voigtlaender), nothing else. Yes, I have a digital camera, too, some small Panasonic, that I use as a notepad, but a digital M is another league, of course. Every electronics-device becomes 'old' very very fast, a precision-mechanics-Leica stays 'young' for decades. The older a Leica is, the more repairable it is. Screwmounts? No problem at all. M2-4? Same. M5? Lightmeter may go, rest of camera will work or is repairable. M6? Repairable, mostly. M8??? Out of production for three or so (!), years? No longer repairable, if the display fails, no spare parts. I'd bet, in five years the M8 will not be repairable at all. Electronics is fast-moving and short-lived, we have to face that. I would like to own a M9, but I cannot afford 5,000 Euros every few years just for a camera-body. Another thing to consider: Screwmounts and M2-4 don't even know, what electricity might be. M5-6 without battery have a dead light meter, but they stay fully-functioning cameras. M7 is somehow in-between, electronical shutter, only two (?) mechanical emergency-speeds. M8+ without electricity is dead, completely dead and useless. So for me (I must not earn my money with pictures, that would bring completely other aspects into foreground) a mechanical camera and film are my things. L. P.S.: Elelectronis ages even unused in the drawer quite fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted February 4, 2013 Share #26 Posted February 4, 2013 ^^ugh...nothing more boring than the same ol' unimaginative and cliche film vs. digital arguments...especially by somebody who doesn't even use or know about digital Ms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterno Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share #27 Posted February 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ^^ugh...nothing more boring than the same ol' unimaginative and cliche film vs. digital arguments...especially by somebody who doesn't even use or know about digital Ms. I agree & I am sorry if my question was not communicated clearly- it was not a film versus digital comparison- - the intended question was being this is my starting point of a Leica RF, is there any advantage to starting on the M8 being once I invest in lens, I assume I will not stop at the M5. But with that said- I will stay with my decision to start with film and the M5 and use my fuji x100 for digital... sorry again to ignite any irrelevant digressional discussions... i avoid a similar discussion with my painter friends of oil versus other mediums useless discussions.. ciao. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ksmart Posted February 4, 2013 Share #28 Posted February 4, 2013 No, no, not the boring digital vs. film etcetcetc..... Digital is necessary, no doubt. But: Is the M the ideal digital camera? I had to use digital cameras, as long as I was in the job, mostly Nikon gear --- but I had someone to pay me a new equipment every three years, that's the difference. Having experienced that, I decided for film and mechanics for ME as a private Person, completely different situation. And I have used M8 and M9s, but not mine ;-) L. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted February 4, 2013 Share #29 Posted February 4, 2013 There's an M9 at the bottom of my forum page for $ 3250 after 10 bids. I thought they sold for $ 6995 new? Of course it may not be in very good condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xalo Posted February 4, 2013 Share #30 Posted February 4, 2013 Sterno, interesting that you consider the M5 as your first Leica. It's unique indeed, but this way you may not immediately notice so. I've got mine (#137...) since about a month now, in addition to having used and using the more 'traditional' film Ms. It works great, even in cold and snow. Perhaps the finder is a bit smaller than the same-sized (.72) ones in the other Ms, leaving less room around the 35mm frame; this may may also be reinforced by the eyepiece being not as close to the camera's edge -- if that is relevant for you, only you can find out, because it also depends on your face and which eye you prefer to use. Overall I think the M5 has a bit of a soviet charm to it that makes it stand out as a tool. I took the risk of buying 'as-is', but at a good price, and am not disappointed a bit. A body which is a little battered is no problem at all for use, but for potential re-sale value. In this sense, the price seems to be on the high side. Perhaps there is room for negotiation, if you're so inclined? Usually in-kind suggestions are rather well taken by serious shops (strap, batteries, case, shipment, discount on lens...). At any rate, guarantee is great value. The feeling of the camera anyway, so enjoy! Alexander P.S.: Forget re-sale value, I forgot it will be your first M - unlikely you'll ever let go of it ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ksmart Posted February 5, 2013 Share #31 Posted February 5, 2013 @sterno If you have to wear glasses (I have to), the M5 like all Ms before M6 will scratch your glasses with the eyepiece very fast. Pragmatic solution: Glue a ring of rubber or silicon around the eyepiece, that is half a millimeter thicker than the depth of the eyepiece-ring. If I had this done at the right time, I had left 250 Euros more in my wallet ("Switch on brain before using hands!"). Just a hint, in case..... L. Looks like that: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/197345-advice-on-m5/?do=findComment&comment=2234074'>More sharing options...
payasam Posted February 5, 2013 Share #32 Posted February 5, 2013 For those who do photography professionally, there is usually no option other than digital. Many who also take pictures for themselves use film and digital side by side. I use the two for different things, although there is some overlap, and I think it sensible to exploit the strengths of each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted February 6, 2013 Share #33 Posted February 6, 2013 Your first comment is about being an artist. If you feel an M5 will fill your need for a film camera and help you with expressing your art then the price is right. If it turns out not to be what you were looking for, this thread has shown you there are plenty of buyers out there. Have fun with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterno Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share #34 Posted February 15, 2013 First off thanks for all of your insight. Even surprising o my self- I decided to go with a M6! Just did not find the correct M5 for the money and being this is my first M & I hope my last film M on my RF journey. So its a black M6.... a little boring/practical compared to the M5 but lats see where this journey takes me. I also chose a 28/2.4 Leica lens. I have a week to return the lens to swap out for something else. I really wanted a 35 but they had nothing under $3k... any opinions/insight on the lens would be appreciated but everyones opinion on a lens and their FOV is person to person on how its being used... sterno. and thank you again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB007 Posted February 16, 2013 Share #35 Posted February 16, 2013 It depends on whether you want a wide-angle or normal or portrait lens. If you are on a budget, please consider the various LTMs which can be bought at very reasonable prices. I use various Nikon LTMs 50/3.5 (rigid and collapsible), 50/2, 50/1.4 and 105/2.5 on my IIIf and M bodies with an adaptor. I am on a hunt for the Nikon 85/2 LTM or Canon 100/2 LTM Canon 50/1.4 LTM is also very reputable. Personally, I have not used them. Please refer to the links below: Dante Stella Leica Screw Mount Lenses Enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted February 16, 2013 Share #36 Posted February 16, 2013 I agree. The M6 in any version is a fine camera and a great user. The ability to meter through any lens is a plus, batteries are available and with an adapter there is a huge selection of lenses. Enjoy the 28 as it really allows you to be close to the subject without too much distortion. The only camera I ever regretted selling was a M6. Have owned two more since that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xalo Posted February 16, 2013 Share #37 Posted February 16, 2013 Congratulations on the M6. It's a great treat, in either version, plain or TTL. Still time to add an M5 later . The 28mm frame almost totally fills its finder, one could say WYSIWYG (don't take it literally, RF frames are not that precise). The frame for the 90mm shown at the same time is small enough not to bother composing and gives a rough (somewhat smaller) indication of the field measured by the meter. I think there are five versions of the Elmarit 28mm Leica M lenses (I suppose you are referring to f2,8). None bad to my knowledge -- then, are there any bad M lenses? Depending on the model, intrusion of the lens into the finder will vary, due to their different barrel and hood sizes, with the latest version (asph.) being the smallest by far. The deeply protruding rear element of the very first one will not allow the camera to meter properly. Depending on what you wish to photograph, 28mm will give you already a true wide perspective for landscapes, draw you right into the action of people and provide much depth of field for hyperfocal/scale focussing (faster than RF-focussing for captures on the fly). Enjoy! Alexander P.S.: get the manual, be it only for the metering pattern, and play with the combo as much as you can even wo/film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xalo Posted February 16, 2013 Share #38 Posted February 16, 2013 I really wanted a 35 but they had nothing under $3k... A 2nd thought. Even a new Leica Summarit 35mm f2,5 should be about $ 1900 (I would want to see the specific Leica rendering before considering other highly competent makes). You can either take the 28mm as a twist of fate which you'll like (especially if the price is right) -- or loath it as not being really what you wanted. You can check your preference of field of view/focal length with the M6' frame line selector (small lever beneath the finder window) by manually switching lines to help envisaging a scene differently. The space around the 35mm frame can help anticipating and composing. Perhaps not a crutch you may need as a painter, though... Alexander Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterno Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share #39 Posted February 18, 2013 Xalo: Thank you for both replies. Good advice and you are right/I'll know immediately if the fov with the 28 works. I really like the 35 in my Fuji x100/actually- the M6 &x100 will all I will need. If the 28 doesnt work, Ill grab a 35 or 50( though for the images I prefer the 50 may be too tight. As soon as I get it Tuesday- Ill be back! Thanks! A 2nd thought. Even a new Leica Summarit 35mm f2,5 should be about $ 1900 (I would want to see the specific Leica rendering before considering other highly competent makes). You can either take the 28mm as a twist of fate which you'll like (especially if the price is right) -- or loath it as not being really what you wanted. You can check your preference of field of view/focal length with the M6' frame line selector (small lever beneath the finder window) by manually switching lines to help envisaging a scene differently. The space around the 35mm frame can help anticipating and composing. Perhaps not a crutch you may need as a painter, though... Alexander Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
payasam Posted February 24, 2013 Share #40 Posted February 24, 2013 I too have an M6 although I would have preferred the meter display of the M5 and the absence of a V/F frame for 28mm. But no complaints. Sterno, please correct "28/2.4", an obvious typo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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