almoore Posted July 5, 2017 Share #341 Posted July 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I strongly disagree. Otherwise, Zeiss would have been out of business a long time ago. And so would Leica...If it works for you, all the more power to you. You buy Leica because of the lenses? For me, it's the form factor and viewfinder. Unless your photographs are a purely technical exercise, I can't see what great difference the lens makes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 5, 2017 Posted July 5, 2017 Hi almoore, Take a look here Favourite medium format?....... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
A miller Posted July 5, 2017 Share #342 Posted July 5, 2017 You buy Leica because of the lenses? For me, it's the form factor and viewfinder. Unless your photographs are a purely technical exercise, I can't see what great difference the lens makes. Yes, I buy Leica lenses b/c of the lens. As a general matter, I'd much rather have a Leica lens on a non-Leica RF than a non-Leica lens on a Leica RF. In my opinion, lens and film choice is 100% of the equation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 5, 2017 Share #343 Posted July 5, 2017 Is it sharpness or some special hard to define mojo that you find lacking outside of the Leica and Zeiss ecosystem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 5, 2017 Share #344 Posted July 5, 2017 Is it sharpness or some special hard to define mojo that you find lacking outside of the Leica and Zeiss ecosystem? I think i have defined my reasons to the extent of my articulation capabilities. I respect your opinion but simply do not share it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 5, 2017 Share #345 Posted July 5, 2017 Very interesting camera, I have never seen one of those. Is it bolted to the table? I'm glad you mentioned that. No, it is not bolted to the table. It has the later version of Manfrotto's hexagonal quick release plate which has it's bolt recessed flat even with the base. The earlier style had a bulky bolt that would cause the camera to tip when placed down off the tripod head. It's the first camera like this that I have seen, too. I put it together with Brooks 6x9cm and a Graflex 4x5" part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted July 5, 2017 Share #346 Posted July 5, 2017 Yes, I buy Leica lenses b/c of the lens. As a general matter, I'd much rather have a Leica lens on a non-Leica RF than a non-Leica lens on a Leica RF. In my opinion, lens and film choice is 100% of the equation. I agree. There is, however, a dose of personal preference in the performance of various lenses. In my opinion, a discernible "family resemblance" characterizes the performance of various lenses due to the preferences of the designer. Case in point are the lenses designed by Dr. Mandler. They are different from the performance of Kölsch or Karbe designs. I am not talking about technical specs but of the visual impression. Since personal preferences are individual, there is no point to an argument for or against a lens as such. My Nikon lenses tend to be more contrasty, The Zeiss Hasselblad lenses generally give me a different "pictorial effect" from the Mandler, Kölsch or Karbe lenses. All these lenses are superb in their own way. Teddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 5, 2017 Share #347 Posted July 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mandler worked within the possibilities of his intellect and foresight; largely before computer design. Perhaps because I'm an olde pharte unconcerned with resolution and contrast metrics, absolutely cannot relate to Karbe's designs which have profound, abrupt transitions to an unfocused plane. Yes. brilliant engineering, but that has no relation to our human eye-brain, our unadulterated native perception. Human perceptual preferences are changed over time due to saturation (images in our case); it will be interesting how these engineered perceptions work out. I will be long dead then so I speak to this moment, and I don't care about a decade or two in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted July 5, 2017 Share #348 Posted July 5, 2017 ...Human perceptual preferences are changed over time due to saturation (images in our case); it will be interesting how these engineered perceptions work out... That is, indeed, interesting, Pico. How much of our perception of what is good / crappy in an image is down to our social and environmental conditioning. I get the impression that the changeability of this is accelerating, in that very quickly highly saturated images seemed to become attractive to the populace, and then HDR, and then 'cinematic', and then... It's easy to dismiss this seeing lack of substance in others, but it is difficult to know ones own self-imposed perceptual limitations. I think that is one of the things which intrigues me about all forms of art and image creation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 5, 2017 Share #349 Posted July 5, 2017 Mandler worked within the possibilities of his intellect and foresight; largely before computer design. Perhaps because I'm an olde pharte unconcerned with resolution and contrast metrics, absolutely cannot relate to Karbe's designs which have profound, abrupt transitions to an unfocused plane. Yes. brilliant engineering, but that has no relation to our human eye-brain, our unadulterated native perception. Human perceptual preferences are changed over time due to saturation (images in our case); it will be interesting how these engineered perceptions work out. I will be long dead then so I speak to this moment, and I don't care about a decade or two in the future. I agree. And let's all be honest: there's nothing that beats a great piece of glass!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 6, 2017 Share #350 Posted July 6, 2017 Can anybody point to an image that works for them taken with a Leica or Zeiss lens but that would have failed if taken with a Canon or Fujinon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 6, 2017 Share #351 Posted July 6, 2017 Can anybody point to an image that works for them taken with a Leica or Zeiss lens but that would have failed if taken with a Canon or Fujinon? Cannot you understand the impossibility of your request? Give it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted July 6, 2017 Share #352 Posted July 6, 2017 Cannot you understand the impossibility of your request? Give it up. The impossibility is my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted July 6, 2017 Share #353 Posted July 6, 2017 Steve - You are so funny. Coming from someone who deliberately doesn't use the center filter on your Fuji GX617 b/c you like so much vignetting that it looks like you used a pinhole camera, I am not surprised what you are saying! From a Photographer who always uses a centre filter with the Fujinon SWD 90mm, whatever you are trying to invent about yourself isn't working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 6, 2017 Share #354 Posted July 6, 2017 From a Photographer who always uses a centre filter with the Fujinon SWD 90mm, whatever you are trying to invent about yourself isn't working. Steve- I could be wrong but I could swear that once you said that you deliberately don't (or for that particular photo, didn't,not sure which camera it was) use a center filter b/c you wanted the vignetting, which was on the extreme side. Whatever - even if I am mistaken, your love for the somewhat technically-flawed optical aesthetic-rendition of photos is very obvious. You use the optical imperfection to your advantage, in many cases. All I am saying is that I am thus not surprised that you would find (and in some cases make) gold out of another man's fool's gold.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 6, 2017 Share #355 Posted July 6, 2017 Well there is one thing, Adam. A good picture. br Philip I agree. And let's all be honest: there's nothing that beats a great piece of glass!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted July 6, 2017 Share #356 Posted July 6, 2017 Steve- I could be wrong but I could swear that once you said that you deliberately don't (or for that particular photo, didn't,not sure which camera it was) use a center filter b/c you wanted the vignetting, which was on the extreme side. Whatever - even if I am mistaken, your love for the somewhat technically-flawed optical aesthetic-rendition of photos is very obvious. You use the optical imperfection to your advantage, in many cases. All I am saying is that I am thus not surprised that you would find (and in some cases make) gold out of another man's fool's gold.... Adam, stop posting like an arse, there's a good chap! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 6, 2017 Share #357 Posted July 6, 2017 Adam, stop posting like an arse, there's a good chap! Less arse from me and less pontification from you, and I think we'll be ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted July 7, 2017 Share #358 Posted July 7, 2017 MF Friends: I am considering a 2X Hasslblad teleconverter for my 250mm superachromat and 80mm planar. I read somewhere that there are two versions: the "Mutar 2X" and the newer 2XE, which is fit to work on the 200 series which I don't have (I have the 503cw). I also read that the glass on the older Mutar 2X was made in Germany whereas the glass on the 2XE was made in Japan and assembled in Germany (or Sweden, can't remember). All else equal, I would definitely want German glass. Anyone have any experience with this and can otherwise comment on the optical quality of either or both? Thanks! Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2017 Share #359 Posted July 7, 2017 I agree. And let's all be honest: there's nothing that beats a great piece of glass!!! Well, ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2017 Share #360 Posted July 7, 2017 Yes, I buy Leica lenses b/c of the lens. As a general matter, I'd much rather have a Leica lens on a non-Leica RF than a non-Leica lens on a Leica RF. In my opinion, lens and film choice is 100% of the equation. 100% my point of view, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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