Now a New 4/3 Lens Roadmap

[Riley]

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Hey boss, I thnk you are messing up with your copy and pastes from the dpreview thread you didn't credit. That image is the 35 1.4L.

 

yeah

for APS C its an almost 50 tho eh

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[Cephalotus]

 

A Zuiko Digital 300/2.8 is really just a 600/5.6 in 35mm terms (that's to match the FOV and DOF), it costs 5700 US and does not have ultrasonic motors and IS. A EF 600/4L IS ... of course, is sold at 7000 dollars.

 

- IS will be provided with future fourthirds cameras, the E-510 will be the first one.

- I don't know the speed of the ZD 300/2,8 (never used one), but the motor drive of the 90-250/2,8 is -very- fast and clearly limited by current fourthirds AF systems and not by the motor drive technology. That's not your in camera "screwdriver" AF system.

It is not as silent as ultrasonic drives.

The ZD 50-200 does have a rather slow AF motor, maybe the main reason why that one was updated to SWD?

- if you compare costs, do not forget that you need an appropriate camera to mount on it. And your lens will propably see 3 or 4 generations of DSLRs in its life time. If you want weathersealing to mount on the wetherselaed lens, you have to buy a Canon 1Ds series camera for excample, if you want 5fps or 8fps there is a problem for both systems now.

 

A Panasonic 25/1.4 ... as Imants has just posted, weighs a 510g, and really will just behave like a 50/2.8 in 35mm terms, what's that alike ... a Canon 50/2.5 costs only 240 bucks and weighs only 280g. A Sigma 50/2.8 macro goes 1:1 costs 310 bucks ...

 

Will the 25/1.4 outperform the 50/2.8 macro when wide open? ... obviously no.

 

The MTF of the Leica 25/1,4 looks very good wide open.

 

Maybe a 50/2,8 at F2,8 -is- sharper, but what about bokeh for example? That Sigma macro lens has a plain horrible bokeh. What about AF speed? What about image stabilisation? There is more about lenses than just numbers...

 

Take a low light situation.

 

On one hand a Canon 5D + 50/1,4 for ~ 2500€

on the other hand an E-510 + 25/1,4 for ~ 1600€ (est)

 

If you want to have the same DOF (shallow DOF is not always a "feature", it more often is a pain for me) you have to stop down the Canon lens to F2,8 and use that combination at, lets say

ISO 3200.

The E-510 can be used at ISO 800 and will give the same speed.

 

If you have a static subject you can benefit from IS and very soft FT mirror slap and shoot at maybe ISO 100.

 

For emergency use you can use the Canon at F1,4 and the E-510 at ISO 1600 or you can use the built in flash on the E-510 which is not possible with 5D.

 

The Leica 25 will hold its value for many years to come, neither would a E-510 or 5D.

 

And now think about somone who also wants to add a bit more zoom to its setup for travel use.

 

What about 12-60 + 70-300 on your E-510? Prices and weight is not available, but taht should add not much more than 1kg and 1000€ to that setup.

 

A 24-105/4 IS is available for the 5D, too, but the 140-600 becomes quite tricky. Maybe the Sigma 170-500 will do it for you, if you are happy with that performance. But compare price and size now.

 

If the fast prime is your only lens, than the 5D + fats 50mm looks quite attractive for the reasons you mentioned above (with the only problem, that you do not get image stabilisation), but if the fast prime is just one lenses in your system, this option is now possible for fourthirds users too (thanks to Leica/Panasonic) and for those people the 25/1,4 is very attractive.

 

When the name fourthirds comes into play, many discussions become very theorteically very fast. I have never read any complains from Canon 30D users, that the Canon 35/1,4 is just a very expensive and very heavy "56/2,2 equivalent" lens for them. I read nothing than praise about that "highly desireable L lens" from crop 1,6 users.

 

How could that be with your logic?

 

Martin

[Riley]

the lenses being given swd are all the highest grade

 

sdai picked the 300mm because its unusually expensive for a 300mm

 

everyone who cans 4/3 comes up with the bokeh discussion

like being out of focus is the only asset you can have

[sdai]

Take a low light situation.

 

On one hand a Canon 5D + 50/1,4 for ~ 2500€

on the other hand an E-510 + 25/1,4 for ~ 1600€ (est)

 

You still don't get it ... Martin.

 

With the 5D combo, you get a 50/1.4 picture but with the E-510 combo you only get a 50/2.8 picture in effect.

 

And if you're after smooth bokeh, the Panasonic (not Leica) isn't a good performer from the samples floating around either.

 

.

The E-510 can be used at ISO 800 and will give the same speed.

 

Is the E-510 really usable at ISO800?

 

The Leica 25 will hold its value for many years to come

 

Sorry but none 4/3 lens will ... just do a reality check on ebay.

 

What about 12-60 + 70-300 on your E-510? Prices and weight is not available, but taht should add not much more than 1kg and 1000€ to that setup.

 

Canon/Nikon already has loads of cheap zooms in the f/3.5-f5.6 range, why would I bother with Olympus/Panasonic?

 

that the Canon 35/1,4 is just a very expensive and very heavy "56/2,2 equivalent" lens for them. I read nothing than praise about that "highly desireable L lens" from crop 1,6 users.

 

FWIW, Canon never boasts they have a 56/1.4 equivalent ... or maybe they should advertise, damn, we have got a 2400/5.6 in the catalogue.

 

Another thing ... the 25/1.4 comparison against the 50/1.4 lenses aren't really fair. When putting a 50/2.8 in effect side by side with a bunch of 50/1.4, do you think it's still fair game?

[Riley]

Simon

even finding a 4/3 lens on ebay s/h is rare

at that rate competition takes it to within 20% of the new list price

 

Based on what we know of L1, which is the closest to E-510

L1 defeats 400D in noise,so its good for iso800 yes

400D seems to de-nature colour to combat noise

 

that said, no-one knows what the noise performance is

its a new chip and a new image processor

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[Cephalotus]

 

With the 5D combo, you get a 50/1.4 picture but with the E-510 combo you only get a 50/2.8 picture in effect.

 

I don't disagree here.

 

And if you're after smooth bokeh, the Panasonic (not Leica) isn't a good performer from the samples floating around either.

 

I have only seen one sample of the 25/1,4 so far and I did like the bokeh.

 

Are there more samples around? Please provide an URL.

 

Is the E-510 really usable at ISO800?

Don't know.

 

No sample pictures from that sensor / image processor has been available, also "useable" is not a standard. The E-400 (Kodak 10MP interline CCD sensor + old true pic image processor) at ISO 800 is very useable to me.

 

One could argue and pixel peep a lot about a comparison to 5D at ISO 3200, but I have not done that yet, because it is of no interest to me.

 

 

Sorry but none 4/3 lens will ... just do a reality check on ebay.

 

They hold their value very well, except for the kit lenses and that's what to be expected.

 

The good thing about buying used Olympus lenses is, that there is very little sample variation and you never have to adjust your lenses for correct focus.

 

Canon/Nikon already has loads of cheap zooms in the f/3.5-f5.6 range, why would I bother with Olympus/Panasonic?

 

Please tell me about those cheap Canon/Nikon F5,6 lenses that give you 600mm (for use on your 5D)

 

 

 

FWIW, Canon never boasts they have a 56/1.4 equivalent ... or maybe they should advertise, damn, we have got a 2400/5.6 in the catalogue.

 

No, they don't have, because the 1200/5,6L was not to be designed for fourthirds.

 

Go to the Canon USA page and look at the MTF charts of Canon lens. They do provide their MTF numbers at 1olp/mm and 30lp/mm, this is a resolution that is good enough for 35mm film, but is not good enough for twice the resolution that is needed on fourthirds.

Olympus does give MTF charts at 20lp/mm and 60lp/mm.

 

As I did explain, a 300mm F2,8 lens made for film can not be mounted on a as small as possible sensor and you can not expect the resolution that is needed.

Otherwise it wohl be a good idea to make a cheap Canon DSLR with a 10MP 2/3" sensor (crop 4) and claim to have a 1200 equivalent F2,8 lens.

That would be interesting for certain applications (bird photography comes to my mind), but it sadly does not work that way. Those lenses that have made for film are simply not good enough for that. (that would be equivalent to 160MP on a 35mm sized sensor)

 

Another thing ... the 25/1.4 comparison against the 50/1.4 lenses aren't really fair. When putting a 50/2.8 in effect side by side with a bunch of 50/1.4, do you think it's still fair game?

 

I do not understand that comparisons and calculations at all. What's the reason behind that?

 

You just try to find all "weaknesses" (from your point of view) and miss all the strength. I do not know if that is intentional or not or if you never tried it or if your kind of photography really only benefit from that "bigger is better" thing, but as a conclusion I can say, that the 4/3 system works very well for what it was designed for.

 

It can not do everything a 5D setup can do, but this is also true vice versa.

 

I did uses Canon for some years (FD, EF and EF crop 1,6), now I do use fourthirds and I do use fourthirds lenses and lenses designed for 35mm film on my E-1, I have friends shooting with Pentax, Nikon and Minolta and -my own experience- is, that the Olympus fourthirds lenses are -very good- lenses and I am very happy with that gear.

 

The bodies are a different story, but here progress happens so fast, that everything that is true today could be wrong tomorrow.

 

If you have a need for some special things like ultra shallow DOF or indoor sports I can not recommend fourthirds at the moment, for travel, macro, portrait (and maybe street with Leica 25/1,4 and IS soon?) it works very well, for -me- better than other current systems, but that depends on individual preferences...

 

Leica introduced the 35mm fomat mayn years ago to get a small and lightweight system with good enough quality, easy handling and enough DOF.

 

That's exactly what fourthirds (and DX) is about in digital world.

 

There have always been those who prefered larger formats and they always had good reasons to do so, but the biggest has never neen the most attractive.

 

As it is today. Fullframe is a much smaller niche than fourthirds or DX and those have much smaller market share than cameras with tiny 1/2,5" sensors.