X1 / X2 / M10

[tnturnerx1]

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I am an X1 owner, and love the camera, regardless of its faults, and I will not buy an X2. I will not buy an upgrade to the X1 until the upgrade has a better lens and a high-resolution LCD. I don't expect a $4,000 lens on a $2,000 camera, but the current lens on X1 & X2 is inferior. I would pay more for an Xn if the Xn had a much better lens.

The dream Xn should truly be a miniature Mn series, at about $4,000.

Right now, I'm saving for the M10 (or M11) when it comes out. However, the M series is much larger than the X series and won't fit in a small pack on my belt like the X1.

I'd much rather have a much better Xn camera, even $5,000 if it had a good lens.

The current Xn lens is not up to Leica standards.

[bluebear]

the current lens on X1 & X2 is inferior. I would pay more for an Xn if the Xn had a much better lens.

The dream Xn should truly be a miniature Mn series, at about $4,000.

The current Xn lens is not up to Leica standards.

 

You pay your money, you take your choice. I think a lot of people on this forum will disagree with you - including me! The lens on the X1 is simply amazing - for a compact camera at this price - and the IQ equals that of many enthusiast DSLRs. Its top notch in my view, but then I've never had the spare cash (or felt the need) to buy one of the M series cameras.

[HPS3000]

I totaly agree with bluebear!

 

The X1 (and propably X2 as well) delivers an amazing IQ - and a mayor part of this IQ is delivered through the lens.

 

True, I would have loved a faster 2,0 Summicron in the new X2 - but that would have come with a larger lens as well.

 

In direct comparison with other cameras (with a 35 mm lens) the X1/X2 can firmly stands it's ground.

 

You should provides us with detailed tests and comparisons why the lens is not up to Leica standards ... unitl then: talk's cheap.

[robert blu]

If I had not yet the x1 I could consider the x2, but having one just upgrading would be to expensive. I'm sure x2 is better than x1 for some aspect but not so much to justify the upgrading cost. What could have pushed me to upgrade are two things: a faster lens (f2) and a not retractable lens (or a dust removal system). I happy enough with my x1 !

robert

PS: I know most of people here did not have any dust problem, but I did ! And it was almost 6 weeks without my only digital camera !

[NZDavid]

I don't agree the X1 lens is inferior. See Erwin Putts for more: X1. I would like a chance to use different lenses, though.

[tnturnerx1]

"Inferior" was, perhaps, overstating the case. I have taken many fabulous shots with the X1, better than I've taken with the Canon T2i and Nikon D200 which I had before. However, the X1 on occasion exhibits brutal chromatic aberration which has really surprised me. I uploaded an image to this site late last year (see earlier post on chromatic aberration ). Since that time, the chromatic aberration has spoiled other shots, and has shocked me with its intensity. I attached the worst one to date. This CA does not happen often, but when it does, whew! To be fair to the X1, the good shots are amazing. I'm waiting for a better lens on an Xn, but don't know if Leica will up the price accordingly. I need a small camera, and for this niche, maybe Leica wants to keep the price less than 3K.

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[brill64]

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True, I would have loved a faster 2,0 Summicron in the new X2 - but that would have come with a larger lens as well.

 

just a thought...canon designed a very small f2 lens on the s100 & fuji also an extendable f2 zoom on the x10. both somewhat more compact than x1/x2. is it really difficult to make anf2 or even f1.8 on an aps compact such as the x1? is it really sensor size related or would the images just become too soft after 2.8? sorry for my ignorance..

[wda]

I am an X1 owner, ...

The current Xn lens is not up to Leica standards.

I wonder what qualitative evidence you have for this claim?

[Xorbid]

Hello people! I'm Alex from Germany and here comes my first humble contribution to the Leica forum, after being registered and impeccably passive since quite a while : ) The major impulse to write this as a reaction to tnturnerx1's post is that spark of hope situated deeply in my heart (on the inconsistency or consistency of which in matters of photographic gear I avoid here to expatiate..) that someone at Leica with power of decision will actually read this and see the light ; ) But, well.. be that as it may, I recently ordered an X2, because in my opinion Leica significantly improved those issues that seemed most important to me: AF speed, life of battery charge and EVF option. I have to say it's really a wonderful camera. The display has been improved a little bit as well, it could be better of course for the sake of perfection, but imho it's good enough and you can still use the EVF if you really need a higher resolution. Nevertheless I agree with tnturnerx1 in the most important point: me too would like an f2 lens on my X and me too would be ready to pay even more for such a camera. Don't misunderstand me here, the Elmarit is a great lens. But Leica can do better. And of course even a price of let's say about $3500 for such a compact 36mm solution would be cheap compared to a Summicron + M9 body (for those folks who are not fortunate enough to call an M9 their own already). I have not the slightest doubt that an X3 with an extendable Summicron would sell, because such a compact would be unrivaled and really worth it's salt. So.. please Leica, build one!

[tnturnerx1]

Before buying the X1 I was very interested in the Canon S100, but the sensor size is just too small in my opinion. My other obvious choice was the fujifilm x100, which I was also very interested in, but it's quite a bit larger. I'm just going to wait and see over the next few years what fuji and leica come out with. I'm so impressed with the leica images, that I've almost become a leica-head. However, that chromatic aberration disturbs me. Right now, I'm saving for an M10 (probably M11 before I save enough money!), however, if leica came out with a X series with a better lens, that would be my top choice because of the size. I'd pay 5,000 for a mini-M series.

[dave.gt]

I am an X1 owner, and love the camera, regardless of its faults, and I will not buy an X2. I will not buy an upgrade to the X1 until the upgrade has a better lens and a high-resolution LCD. I don't expect a $4,000 lens on a $2,000 camera, but the current lens on X1 & X2 is inferior. I would pay more for an Xn if the Xn had a much better lens.

The dream Xn should truly be a miniature Mn series, at about $4,000.

Right now, I'm saving for the M10 (or M11) when it comes out. However, the M series is much larger than the X series and won't fit in a small pack on my belt like the X1.

I'd much rather have a much better Xn camera, even $5,000 if it had a good lens.

The current Xn lens is not up to Leica standards.

 

 

Of all the users over the past couple of years, of all the reviews over the past couple of years and of all the photos I have taken with the X1....this is the first and only criticism I have ever heard, period. In fact, I find this criticism to be something other than a serious comment based on any facts. Sorry.

 

It is an amazing lens!

[tnturnerx1]

I forgot to mention the fujifilm x10. Based on some reviews I've read, I don't think the image quality is what I'm looking for because, again, the sensor is too small.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Hello people! I'm Alex from Germany and here comes my first humble contribution to the Leica forum, after being registered and impeccably passive since quite a while : ) The major impulse to write this as a reaction to tnturnerx1's post is that spark of hope situated deeply in my heart (on the inconsistency or consistency of which in matters of photographic gear I avoid here to expatiate..) that someone at Leica with power of decision will actually read this and see the light ; ) But, well.. be that as it may, I recently ordered an X2, because in my opinion Leica significantly improved those issues that seemed most important to me: AF speed, life of battery charge and EVF option. I have to say it's really a wonderful camera. The display has been improved a little bit as well, it could be better of course for the sake of perfection, but imho it's good enough and you can still use the EVF if you really need a higher resolution. Nevertheless I agree with tnturnerx1 in the most important point: me too would like an f2 lens on my X and me too would be ready to pay even more for such a camera. Don't misunderstand me here, the Elmarit is a great lens. But Leica can do better. And of course even a price of let's say about $3500 for such a compact 36mm solution would be cheap compared to a Summicron + M9 body (for those folks who are not fortunate enough to call an M9 their own already). I have not the slightest doubt that an X3 with an extendable Summicron would sell, because such a compact would be unrivaled and really worth it's salt. So.. please Leica, build one!

 

I have not the slightest doubt that an X3 with an extendable Summicron would ... be far too bulky compared to the existing Elmarit f2.8 package.

 

dunk

[Xorbid]

don't you see how bulky this body already appears with this ridiculously thick grip on in relation to it's relatively small lens? nah, it really wouldn't do harm if the lens was a bit larger. We could think even further.. why not look foreward to a full frame X3 with an extendable Summicron (or Lux even) and integrated EVF. That would be it : )

[wda]

I forgot to mention the fujifilm x10. Based on some reviews I've read, I don't think the image quality is what I'm looking for because, again, the sensor is too small.

You also forgot to answer my question (above) regarding your claim!

[tnturnerx1]

don't worry about your 'ignorance'. Regardless of people think about their abilities (including myself), we are all ignorant. Regarding the other cameras, Canon S100, and others, with smaller sensors--the quality of the image is the most critical factor (besides weight!) and the X1 sensor takes simply amazing images most of the time, except when I get that CA mentioned above, which is rare. I really would like to get the Canon S100, but now that I have the small X1, there's no point.

[tnturnerx1]

I posted an X1 image with terrible CA. I also have a previous post on CA with X1 that posted another image. Well, here's my quandry. Is CA a function of the lens or is it a function of the metering?? The CA problems are rare. I took more than 4,000 images on my recent trip to China for TheArtfulToad.com and the CA only occured on 2 images (1 CA was on US image practicing with the new X1 after I bought it). The other images (not counting the horrible JPGs I often got (see my reply to another post)--that is the raw files--were absolutely stunning. I can't even compare them to the images I took with my Canon T2i and Nikon D200. Images from the X1 has truly converted me into a "L-Head". However, the brutal CA on occasion sparked my comment about the "inferior" lens. But now I wonder: what truly causes CA? Is it the lens or is it the metering gone crazy somehow on some (rare) occasion based on other ambient light such as a bright sky, even when the focus is clearly on an object NOT in the bright sky? Thoughts?