Focussing and poor sight?

[Latent]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am a long time SLR user. I am considering buying a Leica rangefinder. My concern is accurate focus. I have come to rely on auto focus systems in recent years. My eyesight has never been good and looking at the tiny square used for focussing in the Leica rangefinder,. I worry that my eyes just won't cope with this method. I know there are the usual dioptre lenses available, but are there any other accessories or techniques that could help?

[bybrett]

Try a 1.25x or 1.40 x magnifier on camera. You should be still able to see the 50mm bright lines (and longer) however you may need an external viewfinder for accurate composition with wide angle lenses.

[andybarton]

Welcome to the Forum

 

Taking one step back, why are you considering buying a Leica?

[Latent]

Hmm. Answering a question with a question.

 

Mainly, because I am looking for a lighter, smaller, but robust and quality setup for travel purposes.

 

 

Welcome to the Forum

 

Taking one step back, why are you considering buying a Leica?

[andybarton]

That's as good a reason as any!

 

The reason I asked was because rangefinder photography is completely different from an all-signing, all-dancing matrix metering auto-focus SLR set up and it's not something that everyone takes to.

[scsambrook]

Hi Latent !

 

By all means treat yourself to a Leica - you don't have to give anyone reason for doing so.

 

If you can see well enough to drive and read an book (not at the same time !!!) then you shouldn't have any great problems using a rangefinder camera. If you're unsure about the efficiency of your eyesight a check up at an optician should set your mind at rest or get you fitted up with whatever you need for 20/20 vision.

 

Good luck with it.

[lars_bergquist]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hmm. Answering a question with a question.

 

Mainly, because I am looking for a lighter, smaller, but robust and quality setup for travel purposes.

 

I hesitate to say this, but you may be better served by a different camera system than Leica M. A new category of system camera is taking shape, the interestingly named EVIL cameras (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lenses) or 'mirrorless' cameras. These are autofocus cameras, but if they have sensors of APS-C size or perhaps larger, and use good glass, they can produce image files of remarkable quality. They are also smallish and light. APS-C is emerging as our day's equivalent of 35mm photography during film days, uniting good image quality with easy portability and flexibility.

 

Such a camera system is Fujifilm's new Fuji X-Pro. We do also expect Leica to introduce such a system later sthis year. This camera will in all probability use 'native' AF lenses but also be capable of using manual M lenses with a useable focus confirmation system.

 

I say this because as one's eyesight is deteriorating, AF becomes a necessity. M cameras have a superb visual/manual focusing system, better within its limits for dim eyes than a manual-focusing SLR camera, but AF will carry you further and stay you longer.

 

Meanwhile, being a 35mm man, I get much use from a Fuji X-100, even though it does not have interchangeable lenses (and is afflicted with Japanese Menus, though not of the worst kind). Still I am very curious about Leica's coming offering.

 

LB

[thetoness]

I would suggest a walterrxeyepiece. I have one and it custom corrects your eyesight based on your ophthalmologist's prescription. It is a wonderful product and might be the answer you are looking for. All the information can be found here: Walter RX Leica M rangefinder astigmatism rotating eyepiece | Leica M9 M9-P astigmatism rotating eyepiece diopter correction lens, fits rangefinder M8 digital M7 M6 M5 M4 M3 M2 leitz analog cameras.

By the way, not affiliated with the company in any way, just a satisfied customer.

Cary

[wda]

I am a long time SLR user. I am considering buying a Leica ... My eyesight has never been good and looking at the tiny square used for focussing in the Leica rangefinder,. I worry that my eyes just won't cope with this method. I know there are the usual dioptre lenses available, but are there any other accessories or techniques that could help?

Latent, welcome to the forum!

 

Many people turn to the rangefinder method because they find it more reliable than autofocus in later years. I strongly recommend visiting a good Leica dealer and discussing the issue with him. You will be able to try it and assess for yourself how easy or difficult it is. Some dealers will have correction attachments for you to try. In the UK a flagship store like the one in London Mayfair or David Stephens in Manchester would be ideal for you. They are more likely to carry stock for you to try.

 

I use a Leica 1.4x magnifier for lenses of 75mm to 135mm, which certainly helps me. I do not notice degradation of luminance experienced by some owners.

 

Provided you have basic up-to-date correction for any spectacles you wear, I doubt you will have a problem. I no longer use fixed diopter attachments, other than the magnifier, because taking glasses on and off is more of a chore.

[tobey bilek]

A friend made a focus tape with large numbers and he taped it to the lens. He used it in wedding reception halls where it was dark.

 

You would be surprised how how big the numbers can be if if you have only feet or meters showing.

 

Make it on the computer, print, and attach with MMM clear water proof tape.

 

or just buy a Nikon 3100. Small & light Dslr with auto focus. Cost is around $600 with a lens. The weight will be around half that of a Leica and smaller.

 

Or buy Nikon V1 mirrorless. Amazing small light weight camera with smallish sensor so there are short focal length lenses where less focus accuracy is required.

 

Other brand are available, but I use Nikon as my other camera.

 

My M8 is same size as my D700 full frame Nikon,just not quite as tall and lenses are smaller, much smaller. But the weight is still there.

 

The AF cameras from Nikon are amazing quality, even the cheap ones. This morning I delivered an 11x14 print I took 4 years ago with my almost new D200 Nikon with 18/70 lens. It was an amazing print from a camera considered by many today to be obsolete.

Yet at 100 iso it made a print I consider equal to my D700 or D3 at that size. So the latest and greatest is not always best.or required.

[NZDavid]

There are many advantages with manual focusing. With portraits you can focus on the eyes. With landscapes you simply set infinity. Or you can use the DOF scale.

 

AF is often very useful, especially with a smaller sensor camera where the greater DOF will overcome most focusing errors. But it isn't perfect. AF (depending on the system and camera) can struggle in low light or hunt for focus or choose the wrong focus point. Using manual focus settings on an AF camera can be tedious and fiddly to the point that it is not really worth bothering with.

 

You haven't said what rangefinder Leica you are considering. Film cameras seem to have a fraction more focusing latitude than digital sensors. In practical terms all this means is that with digital you have to be even more careful where you focus. The original M3 has a big bright rangefinder patch. My M6 is also bright and clear -- but individual cameras vary. In comparison, the M9 is pretty good, but no better.

 

You also haven't said what your eyesight problems are. I am shortsighted but as I approach my half century I am also have trouble focusing close up, so take my glasses off to inspect settings, then put them back on to compose and focus. No problem with focusing.

 

A huge advantage with the classic Leica design is clear, minimal controls! You don't spend ages fiddling with menus and squinting at the LCD.

 

Much depends on what you are used to. I started off with rangefinders at a young age. Comparing results with later MF SLRs (the OM system) I find I usually did better with RF. It is incidentally more accurate with wider angle lenses. There are various techniques for fine-tuning your RF technique. It would be a good idea to try before you buy.

 

Lastly, an excellent choice for travel!

[Latent]

Thanks you very much for your response. I am thinking primarily of an M9 and using lenses of 50mm or less. For my purposes it is unlikely that I will use anything llonger. My vision problems are quite complex to discuss here. But it's fait to say that manual focussing is more of a challenge to me these days. I just worry how small that split image square is in the Leica viewfinder.

 

 

 

There are many advantages with manual focusing. With portraits you can focus on the eyes. With landscapes you simply set infinity. Or you can use the DOF scale.

 

AF is often very useful, especially with a smaller sensor camera where the greater DOF will overcome most focusing errors. But it isn't perfect. AF (depending on the system and camera) can struggle in low light or hunt for focus or choose the wrong focus point. Using manual focus settings on an AF camera can be tedious and fiddly to the point that it is not really worth bothering with.

 

You haven't said what rangefinder Leica you are considering. Film cameras seem to have a fraction more focusing latitude than digital sensors. In practical terms all this means is that with digital you have to be even more careful where you focus. The original M3 has a big bright rangefinder patch. My M6 is also bright and clear -- but individual cameras vary. In comparison, the M9 is pretty good, but no better.

 

You also haven't said what your eyesight problems are. I am shortsighted but as I approach my half century I am also have trouble focusing close up, so take my glasses off to inspect settings, then put them back on to compose and focus. No problem with focusing.

 

A huge advantage with the classic Leica design is clear, minimal controls! You don't spend ages fiddling with menus and squinting at the LCD.

 

Much depends on what you are used to. I started off with rangefinders at a young age. Comparing results with later MF SLRs (the OM system) I find I usually did better with RF. It is incidentally more accurate with wider angle lenses. There are various techniques for fine-tuning your RF technique. It would be a good idea to try before you buy.

 

Lastly, an excellent choice for travel!

[tobey bilek]

LEICA M9 versus LEICA M3

 

scan down the page for viewfinder image.You will see the patch is pretty small.

 

Frame line accuracy is correct for 1 or 2 meter, at longer distance you get more in the pic than you thought. Up close, you loose some.

[adan]

I just worry how small that split image square is in the Leica viewfinder.

 

The size of the SQUARE really isn't the issue you'll face. If the split-image square covered the whole image area you would still have to visually/manually align two images to tell if you are in focus. So it is more the size of the gap between the two images, and whether you will be able to perceive when they are aligned or not, that will be the issue.

 

Others have mentioned the magnifiers. These do magnify the "square," but again, the main advantage is that they magnify the overlap of the two images, allowing you to see the alignment (or lack of same) with better precision.

 

For 50mm and wider lenses, the precision of the Leica RF is basically overkill. I can focus those lenses with my glasses off (uncorrected vision 20/60)! I can often even adequately focus a 75mm @ f/2.5 and distance longer than 2 m (6 feet) while "blind."

[Double Negative]

It depends on your eyesight, and what's wrong. I used a magnifier w/adjustable diopter correction (the JE 1.15x) which helped, but neither did anything to address my astigmatism. The Walter RX Eyepiece has been a godsend for me. It might not work for everyone, but it eliminated the need for magnifiers or diopter correction in my case as they only magnified the remaining blur.

[archi4]

As usual Lars gives some very wise advice.

While I really am very attached to the Leica M system (for 40 years or so) and my M9 and lenses give me very much pleasure,I have enjoyed using a Fuji X100 and now an Xpro-1. Read Sean Reid's views on the Xpro-1 and its viewfinder. These cameras allow you to see your subject as with a rangefinder camera, but with autofocus. I hope Leica comes up with a similar concept but closer in simplicity of function to the M9.

As to image quality, the fuji is superb. I will now don my asbest suit

[Jeff S]

Eyesight and comfort with various viewing systems vary with the individual. Nothing said here, however useful, will matter as much as trying for yourself. Get thee to a Leica dealer (or other dealer for other systems), or try a camera and lens rental service.

 

Jeff

[darylgo]

As I age my vision in low light suffers significantly more than outdoor daylight. For indoors I use the magnifiers and diopter corrections, they work adequately. AF systems don't assure greater accuracy, I find the opposite is true, the Leica rangefinder is the most accurate and can consistently deliver better focused results, exactly where I focus.

Practice and rested eyes help.

[Messsucherkamera]

Hi Latent !

 

By all means treat yourself to a Leica - you don't have to give anyone reason for doing so.

 

If you can see well enough to drive and read an book (not at the same time !!!) then you shouldn't have any great problems using a rangefinder camera. If you're unsure about the efficiency of your eyesight a check up at an optician should set your mind at rest or get you fitted up with whatever you need for 20/20 vision.

 

Good luck with it.

 

I will agree with all the above.

 

My eyesight is not that great these days - glasses are a must for reading and driving. When I am using my M camera, I wear my glasses so I can focus accurately.

 

Doing so is not much of a problem, although it can cause your frames to loosen up and become a bit sloppy in fit. When that happens, I head off to Lens Crafters to get my frames tightened up and fine tuned (which they do not charge for).

 

If I need really precise framing when using my 28mm lens, I will focus first then remove my glasses to frame/compose the shot. This works even when shooting wide open with shallow DOF, if I stay put and do not wander from the spot where I focused.

 

When doing street photography, I use Tri-X film at ISO 400, set my aperture at f/11 to get maximum DOF and use zone focusing. This makes composition more important than when using shallow DOF but resolves concerns about accurate focusing since you have a very large DOF.

 

It also allows you to work much more quickly since you do not have to focus and risk missing your shot due to the time consumed by trying to focus on continually moving subjects.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[StephenPatterson]

I'm not sure where you are located, but there are many companies that rent Leica cameras and lenses for a few days or a week. This would give you some time with the M9 to decide if it is right for you, before spending thousands and thousands of (dollars, pounds, euros, yuan) on a camera system that may or may not be to your liking.

 

Another option would be to visit a Leica shop or dealer. The first time I held an M8 was at a Leica shop, and they were most helpful and patient in answering my questions.

 

Finally, you might consider purchasing an older film rangefinder (not necessarily Leica), shooting a few rolls to see how you get along. I still have my Yashica Electro 35 from 1975, and it's a great beginner rangefinder that still produces excellent results. These can be purchased in excellent condition for less than $100 USD.

 

I love my M9-P, but it's a big investment and I would advise that you not jump in and purchase before seeing if it is the right camera for you.