JeffWright Posted February 28, 2007 Share #1 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) With the untimely demise of the DMR is there anyone out there with more than a vague notion of the R line's future? I'm aware of the veiled references to future support in the previously circulated memo from Leica about the DMR being sold out. But does anybody have any real information about whether or not my $30,000 in R lenses will be supported in the future with new bodies? Â I'm not terribly impressed with Leica's sense of customer service in this instance. If there isn't a clear direction from the mother ship soon, I will certainly stop buying Leica lenses. The DMR is nice and all, but it's hardly perfection. With no future body and no roadmap, there seems little point to stick with the system long term. The DMR will get harder and harder to come by.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 28, 2007 Posted February 28, 2007 Hi JeffWright, Take a look here Leica R line future. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
4season Posted February 28, 2007 Share #2  Posted February 28, 2007 I don't think anyone with real information will be free to discuss it here  My hunch is, save about $5000 and wait for Photokina 2008 for your new digital R.  It would be a mistake for Leica to say too much too soon, because that will bring the micro-managers out of the woodwork, clamoring for constant status updates or "one more feature". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted February 28, 2007 Share #3  Posted February 28, 2007 There are really only two choices for Leica........Bring out a new R digital body or get out of the camera business.  I believe the transition (technologically) from the DMR to a new R digital is not a major tour de force but rather a marketing exercise to decide what Leica has to offer that will differentiate them from the competition.  My personal belief is that they need a full frame sensor from Kodak (good Lord just look at the file differences already from the Kodak sensors compared to the others including the wonderful CMOS sensors from Canon) Add to this a very light AA filter comparable to what we have now from the DMR and the M8, 14-16 bit real bit depth, and ergonomics comparable to the R9 which means dedicated buttons for mirror lock up etc etc to make the camera intuitive and easy to change in the dark and you can see where I am going. I am not asking for light speed innovatiraons e.g 22 Mpx because frankly there are uprezzing programs which for a fair one time price can get us to large prints without such silicon innovations for super high pixel count with rational noise levels. Don't misunderstand me, if someone figures out how to get 22-39 mpx in a 135 format I will jump on it if the price is right.........I just don't think this is where the rubber is really going to reach the road! Just my HO. Your mileage may vary.  Lots of R&D to get auto white balance perfect is a waste of time in my opinion. There are so many ways to deal with this using Raw format. WhiBal, Expodisk etc will get the job done almost perfectly. May change the way you shoot just a bit but far better than adding hundreds or thousands of dollars to the price of the body just to make this brain dead.  Anyway these are my opinions and others may differ greatly. But I will buy an R10 tomorrow morning with just these features because it will allow me to use the great Kodak sensors and the even greater R lenses to get images that are ultimately much better than what we get today.  I look forward to your comments and suggestions.  Best and cheers  Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share #4  Posted February 28, 2007 I don't think anyone with real information will be free to discuss it here  My hunch is, save about $5000 and wait for Photokina 2008 for your new digital R.  It would be a mistake for Leica to say too much too soon, because that will bring the micro-managers out of the woodwork, clamoring for constant status updates or "one more feature".  Well, my $5000 is already spent, I have an R9 and DMR, for over a year now. With the success of the DMR, I don't expect Leica to abandon the R line, but stranger things have happened.  I have to argue the opposite--leaving the whole question unanswered with no published roadmap for the future leaves future potential customers, and even current ones, in limbo, and not willing to commit to future purchases. I was all geared up to buy two more lenses (and then I'm done, really) for the DMR, but I'll probably buy the nearest Canon equivalent instead, given the lack of any meaningful direction from Leica about their future plans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted February 28, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted February 28, 2007 FreeLists / leicareflex / [LRflex] Re: Was Survey, now Apathy. Â FreeLists / leicareflex / [LRflex] The Future of Leica and why Ted is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 28, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted February 28, 2007 It's his call Doug what happens next , no doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted February 28, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is what most caught my attention (quoting David Young): Â "Stephen Lees, btw, is a long time 'R' user, having bought his first SL some 30 years ago! Not surprisingly, he's presently using an R9 with a DMR. Â ... Â "Mr. Lees realizes that the last time Leica shook up the photographic world was with the introduction of the M3. And ever since, Leica has been "a day late and a dollar short". It is their intention to build a new Leica "R" that will have the same effect on the photographic world as the M3 did in 1953!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted February 28, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Michael Reichmann on Luminous Landscape used to use (and may still) a 1DsII with Canon lenses; then he went to Zeiss lenses, and he said it made a remarkable difference. In other words, even at 16mp, Canons are lens-limited. Â If Leica makes an R-10, they have to emphasize the glass. A 16mp sensor is fine -- most people seem to think that Canon will be ~22mp by Photokina 2008, and that Nikon will have gone FF -- and a good 16mp with Leica glass should match either one. And they need to modernize, preferably with in-body IS, so that older lenses will work; and maybe come up with a surprise lens that will freak everybody out... Â What would really be neat would be if they could cut the size by about 1/3; make the camera NOTABLY smaller and lighter than the competition; these damn top end Canons and Nikons are huge, and if you have to haul two or three of them around, a pain in the neck. Â But one single thing that would most distinguish them is if they went to a different aspect ratio. I doubt they would, because it would be a hell of a gamble, but boy -- it *would* separate them from the crowd. Â JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted February 28, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted February 28, 2007 So interesting to read about the reinvention of Leica from the inside out. Not sure how anyone 28 years old can command sufficient authority to be in full control, but some people are truly exceptional... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 28, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted February 28, 2007 If David Young is so "in the know", you might reasonably expect him to get Stephen Lee's name right. He certainly likes his exclamation marks... Â It was said the M8 Universal Finder was designed by a woman - I wonder if it was this same 28 year old involved in R development. And, if the WATE is its designer's first commercial lens, it shows, we know about the usability issues with this lens. Â The R booth at Photokina 2006 was like a ghost town, I can only imagine how it's going to be at PMA. They surely have to say something about the future, it's a long haul from here to Photokina 2008. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 28, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted February 28, 2007 This is from David Farkas' Photokina blog... Â "When I starting asking questions about when to expect the next version of firmware on the DMR, Roger went and got Maike Harberts, the R-system product manager. She sat down and we discussed the future of the R system for about half an hour. Maike was extremely energized about the R and told me that v1.3 is in fact being worked on right now and will be ready for download very soon, after a thorough QA cycle. The other exciting news is that Leica is actively working on the next R camera, and it sounds like that camera will be full-frame or larger! Â I think something about "very soon" must have got lost in the translation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob3rt5 Posted February 28, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted February 28, 2007 I have to agree that Leica's response to the DMR firmware issues seems to indicate their level of interest in "listening to" our issues and providing support for their products. It seems they want R owners to wait in line for the "tenor to clear his throat" so we can clap. Give us the goods-DAMNIT!!! Support and take pride in your products (DMR) and give us an idea of where you're heading (R10) so that we can be inspired to provide you with feedback. But, most of all, give us something to believe in. Nothing will sink Leica faster than pissing off a bunch of photographers (working professionals) heavily invested in R glass with apathy and vague or non-existant responces to real or percieved issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbedsted1234 Posted February 28, 2007 Share #13  Posted February 28, 2007 This is from David Farkas' Photokina blog... "When I starting asking questions about when to expect the next version of firmware on the DMR, Roger went and got Maike Harberts, the R-system product manager. She sat down and we discussed the future of the R system for about half an hour. Maike was extremely energized about the R and told me that v1.3 is in fact being worked on right now and will be ready for download very soon, after a thorough QA cycle. The other exciting news is that Leica is actively working on the next R camera, and it sounds like that camera will be full-frame or larger!  I think something about "very soon" must have got lost in the translation...  Funny when I had a message from her, it was they are working on it, no deadline or ETA!  It is dead on arrival, the question to ask now: Is the R-series also dead?  Best regards, Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted February 28, 2007 Share #14  Posted February 28, 2007 doesnt having an 'R' Development Team mean to you that the R line hasnt died and that there is a digital future for the R  I think it was jaap who said it best, if I could reiterate the DMR was a stop gap solution, like many stop gaps solutions this becomes limiting  as a piece of technology DMR was remarkable, but its capabilities are looking a little limited the 'advantage' of using film v/s digital is pretty well a dead ball most photogrphers at least know their own direction there  as for telling the clock watchers here what the time line is and after the hashup of the M8 launch, perhaps through haste I think thats one of the more avoidable sessions I could dream up  so finaly, Leica have said a digital R is coming and they have people working on it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 28, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted February 28, 2007 If I was a DMR owner, I would feel seriously disgruntled. Sure, I'd understand the product has a limited life whch is now at an end, but why not tie up the loose ends with a final firmware release, goodness knows they have been talking about it for months. If it's never going to appear, they should at least say so. Â The comments in the above links about recruiting fresh talent into the company makes sense. Aside from industry generic stuff, Leica has to seize control of its own technology and IP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reven Posted February 28, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted February 28, 2007 R10 will be there at PMA. You all don't think so, but it will happen. Leica is small, but still able to work on two cameras at a time. ( Hm, perhaps that was their mistake ) PMA Will be big Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne_werner Posted February 28, 2007 Share #17 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Even though I'm not a R photographer, I was talking to the owner of the camera shop I normally buy my equipment. He told me he had heard that the new R line would be AF (!). He wasn't sure which chip would be used. He mentioned kodak as most likely but possibly even fuji. Note: I have no idea how reliable his info is so please take it with a grain of salt. Â rgds, Etienne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 28, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Christopher, what makes you say that? Are you guessing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted March 1, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted March 1, 2007 I suspect the R10 will make its debut in 2008 at Photokina... Leica is sooo predictable... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnguyen Posted March 1, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted March 1, 2007 I heard new leica DSLR will be announced soone than Photokina.. PMA in few days . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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