jim sink Posted February 5, 2012 Share #1 Posted February 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) For the past year I've been reading about the desire for an M10. I'm sure it will be a great camera. But hey , so is the M9 and I think we should enjoy the pixels out of it. Whats really bothering me is that as soon as the M10 hits the market so will the "talk" about an M11. Lets slow down and enjoy the M9. I hope its around for a long time. I've been shooting as a pro for 35 years and the M9 is the best to come along in my career. I'm very happy with what I have and probably wouldn't buy an M10 anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Hi jim sink, Take a look here M10 not so fast !. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andalus Posted February 5, 2012 Share #2 Posted February 5, 2012 Agreed here in Chapel Hill! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted February 5, 2012 Share #3 Posted February 5, 2012 I look at the release of the 10 with some worry... 1) assuming there are a ton of m9 and 9p out there, will they price the 10 to be so far above the 9 so as not to erode pricing on dealer stock? A 10 at 9K would kill dealer prices of 9ps at 8K. A 10 at 14K would be priced high enough to keep demand for 9p's still high. But for the users...would we buy a camera at that price range? 2) how much can they improve on? Finder? buffer? 6fps? These are not stop-use quirks...we live with them and are happy. Personally, I would rather drop 10K on a 50/.95 vs a little better finder and faster buffer and higher ISO performance. I don't think we will see a 10 this year. 9P demand is good. The upgrade program is there. I think leica would be better served with improving the supply of glass. The 9 kicks-butt and most of the complaints are from people who want something cheaper, faster or improved ISO (bang for buck)...for the 99% of owners who want a leica 9 for what it is...well, we are not really complaining. I for one, don't need a camera to shoot 3800iso with a .95 lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted February 5, 2012 Share #4 Posted February 5, 2012 Ahh, the age-old cycle begins. With this logic we'd all still be using daguerrotypes. "Glass plates? I don't need any stinking glass plates!" Leica has had no trouble selling M9-P's at their elevated price. Just like the M9 launch, people thought it would be too expensive. It wasn't needed. The M8/M8.2 were selling well. I'm guessing that we will see an M10 launch with some enhanced features over the M9, and most likely a CMOS sensor. That alone will cause the remaining M9 stock to keep selling VERY well for all of the anti-CMOS crowd. It will likely launch at the same price as the M9-P, but I'd guess that it will also not have the sapphire screen--although I would guess that it will come in a "P" version with that option, just like the S2 does. Anyway, this is all speculation until it launches. Let's see what comes. I for one hope for something every bit as successful as the M9. Its good for Leica and good for us. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 5, 2012 Share #5 Posted February 5, 2012 The M9s do the job I bought them for, so it would take substantial improvements in an M10 for me to bother even looking (quadruple the ISO, and/or twice the pixels). However, companies upgrade or change products to remain competitive in the race for NEW users, not just entice current users. Or simply because the underlying materials or technologies change - Leica has replaced lenses because a glass type disappeared (Noctilux), or they developed a less expensive design to build (35 Summilux Aspherical vs. 35 Summilux ASPH). While Kodak sold the sensor division before going bankrupt, Leica has to be wondering about the long-term viability of CCD in an increasingly CMOS world. So I can see where LEICA may need an M10 fairly soon - even if I don't. As to price - leaving aside the vagaries of currency fluctuations and the global economy, the usual pattern is for digital camera upgrades to cost the same as their predecessors. E.G., a Canon 60D is still about the same price as the original 10D. Unless there is a major paradigm shift (moving from cropped sensor to full-frame, for example). There was a big price jump from the M8.2 to the M9, but also a big price jump from a Nikon D2X to a D3X. Leica is in the unique position of being able to charge more for cosmetics. Add a rhinestone - excuse me - sapphire-glass back cover and move the logo around, and someone will pay $1,000 extra. I'm not sure they have as much leeway to raise the price of the "basic" camera much further, and I expect they know that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim sink Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted February 5, 2012 At some point you have to draw the line and be comfortable with what works for you. I'm not at all against new technology but you have to admit that its coming at us now faster than ever. By the way , I still have a Nikon F2 that I just can't part with even though my system for my business is exclusively "Canon" and "Leica" for both business and personal use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted February 5, 2012 Share #7 Posted February 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica needs the M10 much more than most M9 users do, or else sales growth, in Euro and units, will not be possible. That's why we will see one, the sooner or later;). I will continue shooting the M9 as long as it works and thereafter as long as maintenance/repair costs are reasonable before upgrading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ockie50 Posted February 5, 2012 Share #8 Posted February 5, 2012 Don't worry ! There will never be a M10, M11, M12 etc. It has to do with numbers. Leica has come full circle now with M1, M2, M3 .... M9! It is not good from a model designation point of view to go higher than to one digit. Wouldn't it be strange to respond to the question - Which M-Leica do you use? I use the M17..... No M9 will be the last digital M with current design. Instead Leica will do what Canon did with EOS-1. Introduce 9.2, 9.3 etc.upgrades with better sensor, screen, ISO performande, buffer time etc. However, the "shell" designs will remain the same... This IMHO. Anyone with me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted February 5, 2012 Share #9 Posted February 5, 2012 Leica needs the M10 much more than most M9 users do, or else sales growth, in Euro and units, will not be possible. That's why we will see one, the sooner or later;). I will continue shooting the M9 as long as it works and thereafter as long as maintenance/repair costs are reasonable before upgrading. Hmmmm...sales growth... My prescription = raise lens prices 10% and expand their plant. Put 20K .95 on the shelfs, wipe the secondary market. This assumes that margins are the same on bodies and lenses. Personally I think that they have lower margins on the glass Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgrafixstop Posted February 5, 2012 Share #10 Posted February 5, 2012 Whatever! We'll get whatever Leica execs and engineers decide to give us, whenever they decide is the right time. It would seem that a number of improvements could be incremental software changes - bringing us an M9-2 etc. Possible physical changes that could require a new body - viewfinder, image stabilization, or - egads - in-body auto-focus, might bring a M10 (howabout Ma1 - for automated?). Regardless, what Leica needs to do - if they want to expand the brand and increase the user base - in a mid-priced body with a new line of interchangeable lenses (think Fuji X-pro upgrade like). Maybe limit the lenses to f2.8, forget any attempt at video, a high quality video viewfinder with zoom lens support and a choice of black or grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted February 5, 2012 Share #11 Posted February 5, 2012 Don't worry ! There will never be a M10, M11, M12 etc. It is not good from a model designation point of view to go higher than to one digit. That's funny. I guess the SRT 101, SX70, and the AK47 were exceptions. Regardless of the design and features, electronics in cameras get dated pretty fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim sink Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share #12 Posted February 5, 2012 Don't worry ! There will never be a M10, M11, M12 etc. It has to do with numbers. Leica has come full circle now with M1, M2, M3 .... M9! It is not good from a model designation point of view to go higher than to one digit. Wouldn't it be strange to respond to the question - Which M-Leica do you use? I use the M17..... No M9 will be the last digital M with current design. Instead Leica will do what Canon did with EOS-1. Introduce 9.2, 9.3 etc.upgrades with better sensor, screen, ISO performande, buffer time etc. However, the "shell" designs will remain the same... This IMHO. Anyone with me? I like this , well thought out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted February 5, 2012 Share #13 Posted February 5, 2012 In body IS, movie mode, LED framelines, live view, better sensor performance, and a faster processor all sound pretty seamless and great to me. I'm sure we'll get them as soon as Leica's execs decide it so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim sink Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted February 5, 2012 Agreed here in Chapel Hill! Wish we could start a club here in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area. Anybody interested ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 5, 2012 Share #15 Posted February 5, 2012 What’s the big deal with LED framelines I wonder? It’s just another light source after all. Now electronically generated LCD framelines, that would be a different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 5, 2012 Share #16 Posted February 5, 2012 Wouldn't it be strange to respond to the question - Which M-Leica do you use? I use the M17..... In his first published novel, "The Sands of Mars" (1951), Arthur C. Clarke writes of his main character preparing to photograph the departure from Earth orbit to the Red Planet. ""Captain's compliments, sir, and would you like to come and see the take-off?" "I certainly would," said Gibson. "Wait until I get my camera." He reappeared a moment later carrying a brand-new Leica XXA, at which Jimmy stared with undisguised envy, and festooned with auxiliary lenses and exposure meters." Some people can see the future, and some can't.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 5, 2012 Share #17 Posted February 5, 2012 Now electronically generated LCD framelines, that would be a different matter. Agreed, especially if they varied in size according to focussing distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted February 5, 2012 Share #18 Posted February 5, 2012 What’s the big deal with LED framelines I wonder? It’s just another light source after all. Now electronically generated LCD framelines, that would be a different matter. I would not care for led frame lines or IS or live view. I want IS or live view, I will buy a 600 cannon PS. why no on the frame lines? The beauty of the M is shooting at night and in dark environs, LED frame lines in a viewfinder would close your pupil and make it harder to see the dark area your aiming for. Don't believe me...spend a few hours with a telescope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted February 5, 2012 Share #19 Posted February 5, 2012 I would not care for led frame lines or IS or live view. I want IS or live view, I will buy a 600 cannon PS. why no on the frame lines? The beauty of the M is shooting at night and in dark environs, LED frame lines in a viewfinder would close your pupil and make it harder to see the dark area your aiming for. Don't believe me...spend a few hours with a telescope. Interesting if logically flawed statement. If the beauty of an M is shooting at night, why wouldn't IS and better high ISO performance be ideal? And you've obviously never shot a night-scope -- it's trivial to use LEDs in a way that would preserve night vision in a way superior to the current bright line finder. I think when most people say LED framelines they mean parallax compensated, focus distance compensated framelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted February 5, 2012 Share #20 Posted February 5, 2012 I suppose one option is to get off the internet and quit reading about equipment and technical specs. Study photography, read books on art and visual history, and give yourself an ongoing project using your existing tools. Ignorance can sometimes be bliss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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