Bags, again

[larsv]

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Laptop Backpacks by booq

 

This is what I purchased a while back. Lots of room. Separate laptop compartment, plenty of room for a book, pens, chargers and other stuff AND a separate camera pocket fitting a M camera nicely. Lots of separate pockets, also for a bottle, phone and what have you.

[tdtaylor]

I use this bag everyday- lots of pockets, well protects my MBP, M9 with 35FLE, and lots of other items.

 

Laptop Bags by booq

[CalArts 99]

I am looking for a new camera pack too. I am torn between this one ONA | DSLR Camera and Laptop Backpack | Waxed Canvas and Leather Backpack

 

The only issue I have with bags like ONA is that despite their fancy rhetorical ad copy and their high end marketing is that the bags are made in the Dominican Republic. I realize that this doesn't mean the bags are inferior in any way, but it does mean their profit margin is a lot better by using offshore cheaper labor. It's the same with the Booq bags mentioned here (made in China), and the ThinkTank bags (made in China) and the Lowe bags (made in China.)

 

Again, I'm not arguing build quality but it sometimes kind of rubs me the wrong way when a manufacturer markets the way ONA does and then goes out and shops for cheap labor sources.

 

Billinghams are made in the UK. Fogg bags are made in France by two people: Nigel Fogg and bee berman (she uses lower case in her name.) Domke bags are made in the USA and so are Waterfield bags (in San Francisco.) Tom Bihn bags are also made in the USA (Port Angeles, Washington.)

 

Once again, it's not about being made in China or the Dominican Republic itself, but simply the idea of high prices yet sourcing cheaper labor. The prices should reflect the labor costs a bit better.

[StephenPatterson]

Once again, it's not about being made in China or the Dominican Republic itself, but simply the idea of high prices yet sourcing cheaper labor. The prices should reflect the labor costs a bit better.

 

I think you are not considering the difference in volume between a company like Domke and a new, some would say niche, manufacturer like Ona. I would not be surprised to hear that Ona only produces a few thousand bags a year, where Domke might produce that in a week. If Ona were to try and source in the US their already high price would be astronomical, or in other words not economically viable, and they would be out of business.

 

Another example is Wotancraft Atalier from Taiwan. Wotancraft bags are more expensive than a similar Domke bag, but are of higher quality and produced in significantly lower volume. I currently use a Wotancraft Scout shoulder bag, which replaced my Domke F-803.

 

Certainly there are companies who generate huge profit margins at the expense of cheap overseas labor, such as Apple who have the highest profit margins of any smart phone or computer manufacturer, but Ona and Wotancraft are not amongst them.

 

Stephen

 

PS I'm a big fan (and stockholder) of Apple and have been very happy with their products and business model, which has seen the stock price rise from $65 to nearly $400 per share in a few short years.

[CalArts 99]

I think you are not considering the difference in volume between a company like Domke and a new, some would say niche, manufacturer like Ona. I would not be surprised to hear that Ona only produces a few thousand bags a year, where Domke might produce that in a week. If Ona were to try and source in the US their already high price would be astronomical, or in other words not economically viable, and they would be out of business.

 

Domke is the only mfg mentioned that would not be considered a niche company, the rest of them are and do not produce in high volume. (I once had to wait two weeks for a Tom Bihn bag to be made because they couldn't meet production at the time.) And their prices are competitive for their kind of product except perhaps for Fogg which is really the epitome of a niche product. They are built literally 100% by hand and by two people only (the owners of the company.) The others seem to do well by employing local workers and with benefits. Their margins are probably just less.

 

We all know the story here and there are multiple sides of it. But personally I get a bit turned off when a company uses ad copy that makes them sound super special (and with high retail prices) yet offshore their labor. No big deal, just a personal thing that irks me.

[mafoofan]

In all fairness, I think we are often more attracted to the romance of "Made in USA/England/Italy" than the reality. The bags you are talking about are all mostly machine-made (maybe with the exception of Fogg). These days, the Chinese are likely to have better, more advanced equipment and thus often have the capability to make the better product. The issue is quality control, but I have seen so much variance in goods from all countries to realize that it is no better or worse anywhere. Generally, you get what you pay for, regardless of what country makes it.

 

Take Billingham bags for an example. The materials are decent, but the workmanship is mediocre and could probably be done better in a well-supervised Chinese factory for less cost. On numerous new examples I looked at, pieces were sewn on in an uneven fashion and stitches were inconsistent, loose, or broken. The cost of English labor being what it is, it makes my head spin wondering how much I'd have to pay for an English-made Billingham without such flaws.

 

Ultimately, I am not concerned with margins, and far more concerned with the quality I get for the price I pay.

 

The only issue I have with bags like ONA is that despite their fancy rhetorical ad copy and their high end marketing is that the bags are made in the Dominican Republic. I realize that this doesn't mean the bags are inferior in any way, but it does mean their profit margin is a lot better by using offshore cheaper labor. It's the same with the Booq bags mentioned here (made in China), and the ThinkTank bags (made in China) and the Lowe bags (made in China.)

 

Again, I'm not arguing build quality but it sometimes kind of rubs me the wrong way when a manufacturer markets the way ONA does and then goes out and shops for cheap labor sources.

 

Billinghams are made in the UK. Fogg bags are made in France by two people: Nigel Fogg and bee berman (she uses lower case in her name.) Domke bags are made in the USA and so are Waterfield bags (in San Francisco.) Tom Bihn bags are also made in the USA (Port Angeles, Washington.)

 

Once again, it's not about being made in China or the Dominican Republic itself, but simply the idea of high prices yet sourcing cheaper labor. The prices should reflect the labor costs a bit better.

[NZDavid]

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[cocker]

Take Billingham bags for an example. The materials are decent, but the workmanship is mediocre and could probably be done better in a well-supervised Chinese factory for less cost. On numerous new examples I looked at, pieces were sewn on in an uneven fashion and stitches were inconsistent, loose, or broken. The cost of English labor being what it is, it makes my head spin wondering how much I'd have to pay for an English-made Billingham without such flaws.

 

Ultimately, I am not concerned with margins, and far more concerned with the quality I get for the price I pay.

 

I have more Billingham bags than I care to admit and they are all well made. As for "margins" I'm more concerned with employment in my own country and in not exploiting cheap labour working in poor conditions.

[CalArts 99]

As for "margins" I'm more concerned with employment in my own country and in not exploiting cheap labour working in poor conditions.

 

That's what it's about for me, too. I'm willing to pay a bit more to keep local people employed and with benefits. All of us are pretty well paid (we can afford expensive non-essential goods like Leica), and that money comes from somewhere and so it's being paid out down the line, too.

 

Where something is made isn't about 'romanticism' nor is it a naiveté about modes of production and modern assembly. Ideally (in a truly free and open market) labor should be able to work for the highest wages it can find (i.e., work in another factory if they pay more.) But once there's a geopolitical border and a fence, the worker cannot move elsewhere to find better wages; it's basically a captive workforce.

 

As consumers we can still try to make certain choices that fit our worldview. And if it's solely about one's own pocketbook then that is one's personal choice.

[NZDavid]

Some indicators of quality. Look for: Fabric. Cordura and ballistic nylon are best, followed by polyester. Denier is a rating of thickness, not strength. Seams and stitching. Lockstitch is best. Big chunky zips, usually YKK. Sturdy handles and attachments. Cheap bags stint on quality.

[StephenPatterson]

I have more Billingham bags than I care to admit and they are all well made. As for "margins" I'm more concerned with employment in my own country and in not exploiting cheap labour working in poor conditions.

 

One of the first Leica bags I bought was a Billingham L2, but I had problems with the stitching after only a few months of use. IMHO not on par with the Wotancraft Scout, which is the same price, uses higher quality materials, and better craftsmanship.

 

As for your broadly generalized xenophobic comments concerning working conditions outside of Great Britain I will reserve comment, except to say that I strongly disagree.

 

Stephen

[CalArts 99]

One of the first Leica bags I bought was a Billingham L2, but I had problems with the stitching after only a few months of use. IMHO not on par with the Wotancraft Scout, which is the same price, uses higher quality materials, and better craftsmanship.

 

I think we'd all agree that Wotancraft bags are excellent construction and with top grade materials. And it is a Taiwanese company owned by a local individual (Chih Chieh Hsu) who uses local labor and is part of the Taipei community and local economy. 'Think globally, act locally' is not only a popular eco term but can also be applied to business and commerce.

 

They have become popular with urban hipsters here. Very high quality although I'd argue that the aesthetics of the bags are somewhat of an acquired taste and not for everybody.

[Messsucherkamera]

My wife was very nice and had Santa give me an early Christmas present of an Ona Camps Bay backpack. Here are some of my first impressions.

 

The Ona is extremely well made, easily on par with the Filson. The canvas is heavy and rugged and all the hardware, buckles and zippers are first class. This is reassuring as this backpack is stupid expensive...

 

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post I've used Filson luggage and briefcases for years, and they're first class. They have a lifetime "no questions asked" warranty, which is now almost unheard of. The Ona by comparison has a one year warranty. The Filson straps on the rucksack are bridle leather, unlike the padded straps of the Ona, and will not be as comfortable with heavy loads or long durations. Also, even though the dimensions for both the Filson and Ona are very close, the Filson has a rounded top section which limits it's internal capacity.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Stephen

@ Stephen,

 

Thanks for the review and the photos - the ONA pack sounds like a solid winner.

 

A few observations -

 

Unlike the Filson rucksack, the ONA bag has padded shoulder straps which are mandatory in my view. I have thought of getting the Filson and am trying to figure how to make pads to attach to the straps. Bare leather straps would eat away at shoulders with even moderate weight in the ruck.

 

I am at a loss to understand why both bags lack a waistbelt.

 

Others have commented about country of orgin, cheap labor and how it does not lower the price to the consumer. Filson products are made in the USA and I can vouch for the quality of their products, being a longtime Filson user. I do not consider Filson to be overpriced in the least, given the quality, warranty and performance of their outdoor gear.

 

As far as the price of the ONA backpack, there are even more costly camera packs available, such as the Fogg Solo daypack. these folks C h i i f C a m e r a s - fogg camera bags have the Fogg solo available for $1120 SGD ($857 USD), if their information is current.

 

The last U.S. based Fogg dealer I saw a price quote for the Fogg Solo available from had them at around $1000 USD. The ONA is costly, but doable while the Fogg Solo is just out of control in terms of price (just my opinion, which others may disagree with).

 

I could see going with the Filson rucksack and fine tuning it for photo use, or even the ONA. As fantastic as Fogg bags are, I don't see myself coughing up $1000 for their backpack.

[StephenPatterson]

 

...I have thought of getting the Filson and am trying to figure how to make pads to attach to the straps. Bare leather straps would eat away at shoulders with even moderate weight in the ruck.

 

I am at a loss to understand why both bags lack a waistbelt.

 

 

If you search on Amazon there are a number of options for sheepskin seat belt covers that should work with the leather straps of the Filson rucksack. They attach with velcro, and the only problem I would foresee is the difference in the width of the Filson strap and a car seatbelt. You may need to get out the old needle and thread, or possibly find a camping supply solution.

 

As for the lack of a waist belt all I can say is that it really does not seem to be a problem with the Ona. My personal preference is if I am carrying a heavy pack (camping) a well padded high quality waist belt is indispensable, but with smaller packs that are not nearly as heavy I find the small unpadded straps that are intended to be waist belts more of a nuisance. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

 

Stephen

 

PS My Filson wheeled carry on suitcase has made over 40 trips between the US and China and is still going strong. Filson makes amazing products!!!

[algrove]

Absolutely Rick. As for the Ona "size of a small battleship" backpack, I think my wife gave it to me so I could carry all her sh#t, I mean stuff...

 

I still much prefer to go light in the city, but I think for hiking in the country and long trails this pack will be very handy.

 

I like the top compartment idea. In this way the weight is in the bottom, unless the top "shelf" gets crazy heavy with your wife's "stuff".

 

Hey, did you forget to put the 90 Elmarit-M in it?

[StephenPatterson]

I like the top compartment idea. In this way the weight is in the bottom, unless the top "shelf" gets crazy heavy with your wife's "stuff".

 

Hey, did you forget to put the 90 Elmarit-M in it?

 

The 90 is directly below the M9-P in the previous photo. The compartments are nice and deep, so the lens cases fit with no problem. I know lots of people don't use the Leica leather cases, but I think they add an extra layer of protection, and keep the lenses from bouncing around.

 

I think the Ona backpack is going to work great for my needs, specifically when I have to venture far from where I am staying and running back to the hotel is difficult or impossible. Also when the weather is not cooperating and I need to carry rain gear, umbrella, etc. then I think the Ona will do nicely. Also at night when I want to take along the Gitzo tripod. However, if I'm just walking around a city like Venice or Hong Kong then a shoulder bag (or less) is ideal for me. The ability to free oneself from all the gear and clutter, and just explore a city with an M9 and 35mm lens attached, is one of the things I love best about Leica.

 

Stephen

[algrove]

The 90 is directly below the M9-P in the previous photo. The compartments are nice and deep, so the lens cases fit with no problem. I know lots of people don't use the Leica leather cases, but I think they add an extra layer of protection, and keep the lenses from bouncing around.

 

I think the Ona backpack is going to work great for my needs, specifically when I have to venture far from where I am staying and running back to the hotel is difficult or impossible. Also when the weather is not cooperating and I need to carry rain gear, umbrella, etc. then I think the Ona will do nicely. Also at night when I want to take along the Gitzo tripod. However, if I'm just walking around a city like Venice or Hong Kong then a shoulder bag (or less) is ideal for me. The ability to free oneself from all the gear and clutter, and just explore a city with an M9 and 35mm lens attached, is one of the things I love best about Leica.

 

Stephen

 

That is great! Any idea where I could get a case for the 90 Elmarit-M? Mine came with nothing, but is in very nice shape. Agree that the Leica cases give an extrranlayer of protection and that's why I would like to get a case for that one. Must admit I have not tried very hard to get a case for it, but your reply has me wanting to get one. Guess I could just call Leica NJ.

[StephenPatterson]

That is great! Any idea where I could get a case for the 90 Elmarit-M? Mine came with nothing, but is in very nice shape. Agree that the Leica cases give an extrranlayer of protection and that's why I would like to get a case for that one. Must admit I have not tried very hard to get a case for it, but your reply has me wanting to get one. Guess I could just call Leica NJ.

 

Here's one on ebay

 

LEICA SOFT LENS HOLDER COVER CASE | eBay

[algrove]

Anyone even considered Guru Gear?

 

Well made of parachute material and the suspension system is first rate. Love the 2 shoulder sections with a lumbar support section down low. It has a notebook pocket located to the inside of the suspension system with its own zippered compartment.

 

The backpack opens in 2 halves so that upon opening the photo gear sides you do not expose to the world all you have in it, just half of what you have in it.

 

Besides a top handle, the side handle is constructed to also hold a tripod upright while the tripod base fits into a purpose-built expandable tripod pocket and above this side handle is a clip setup to keep the tripod firmly upright while jumping over or through running water like brooks and streams, if that's your style. You can put your tripod on either side if you want to balance your load.

 

It also has 2 outer half zipper pockets for whatever, but clothing comes to mind when the weather turns lousy plus you can use the interior web pockets (with horizontal velcro dividers) contained in the 2 outer pockets for smaller items like GPS, compass, small flash light, etc. One additional side pocket has a raincoat for the backpack in case the weather turns horrific.

 

Each photo gear side (which zips on 3 sides) has more padded inserts than I've ever seen with other packs having 9 pockets on each side and most pockets are bigger than M lenses without cases (but just about right for M lenses in their leather cases if you desire to take them along) with several of these pockets about right for M bodies, hard drives and the like.

 

The right photo gear side contained an additional 4 padded inserts for whatever is needed. Inside each camera gear compartment are zippered vertical pockets for filters, SD cards, etc with horizontal velcro dividers to keep items in place instead of it all falling to the bottom.

 

All in all I am pleased with the purchase called the Kiboko 22"L+. The cost was $379. They make a taller one that probably fits SLR's and Hasselblad's easily. Or probably a tent for all I know! Just joking.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[rob_w]

I have received the National Geographic backpack and decided to return it. Dimensions etc. are fine but for my purposes it is too much like a hiking bag than a business bag when you really see it. The heavy weight material, extra weather covers and heavy duty zips are fine for outdoor hiking but just slow and cumbersome to use on a busines bag.

 

I think it was Bill who said that the Leica might rattle around inside and he is right. The interior dividers, although adjustable, are really more suitable for SLR sized bodies and lenses. I would have needed to insert extra padding to make the M9 secure.

 

So back it goes.

 

I don't think I will try again to buy a bag online. There are so many variables that I need to see the bag for real before making a decision. Maybe I will just buy a business backpack and add a Billingham insert (again, Bill's suggestion).

 

Thanks for the comments, suggestions and help!