Xmas Posted July 30, 2011 Share #41 Posted July 30, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm from the view that if you're going to build something for a purpose it should work for it under normal conditions. At the moment the M9 is not doing this, the camera locking up and erasing photos is not normal nor should just be accepted and shrugged off. Sure it might be certain cards and that the cards don't strictly adhere to a certain guideline the Leica requires but looking around at other cameras the M9 does stand out with compatibility if it is this issue. I've used and had the problem with multiple cards (different brands) and so far I've not had the issue with a Transcend 16gb card so looks like I might finally be in the clear but something is going on with certain cards and/or conditions which at the very least should seriously be looked in to since it's something which keeps cropping up here. Hi Eeek Leica have persisted on bottom loading for film cameras from '24 or so, easy to missload write Leica a perfurmed letter if you want, see where it gets you. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Hi Xmas, Take a look here M9 locked up leading to a very important photo missed.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ErikP Posted July 30, 2011 Share #42 Posted July 30, 2011 Good point Jaap, a card straight from another make of camera can cause problems, and nothing to do with the price of an M9. Steve Well - these card thing and hanging up stuff and so on seems to be solved by Samsung, Canon, Nikon, Sony .........it sure do is an area for Leica to improve on. The concept should be fail safe..... A customer should not even need to think about this problem. I do not really recall these kind of disc. from early 90 and forward for digital cameras. Also to enter à pro segment - it can absolutely never ever hang up. It can wear out but not have any blip blop electrical funny behaviour..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 31, 2011 Share #43 Posted July 31, 2011 VERY frustrating, as I missed an important photo. I snapped one photo and the exposure was not what I wanted (MY MISTAKE) so I then wanted to just delete that one SINGLE photo. I deleted the one single photo and my camera locked up. The only way I could take more photos was to take the battery out for more than a few seconds and then put it back in. This is definitely not what I want happening for the damn money we all have paid for this camera. So, any thoughts from this helpful forum? The card was a Sandisk Extreme 111 8gb.Thanks, Mark With the capacity for hundreds of photos on a card, stopping to delete one seems rather silly in terms of the time and attention it takes from the event. Learn: shoot one, then another. Set your camera properly - learn it. No amount of $ will overcome ignorance. Shoot strictly compressed DNG is my only hint. No JPEG. Nothing else. Work at it rather than damning the hardware, regardless of what you paid for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted July 31, 2011 Share #44 Posted July 31, 2011 Shoot strictly compressed DNG is my only hint. No JPEG. Nothing else. Work at it rather than damning the hardware, regardless of what you paid for it. With respect Pico, because I know your post had best intentions.. If the user is confined to shooting compressed DNG no Jpegs - The hardware is worthy of damning and if someone wants to delete a picture mid shoot they should be able to - Their choice. I see nothing ignorant in this. If none of this is possible; then sell a camera without those functions implemented and price accordingly. He is using a camera how he wants to use it and well within what he was led to believe possible when it was advertised and sold to him. He really should not be having to justify to people why he decided to delete a photo in camera. It has absolutely no relevance. The only ignorance I can see in this situation is - someone has presented a real problem and others are telling him it could have been avoided if he had not used the camera in a way he was led to believe was possible by the manufacturer when purchased. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 31, 2011 Share #45 Posted July 31, 2011 same with Jaguar automobiles of a certain vintage or Keeler ophthalmoscopes, owners of such fine equipment recognize these quirks & learn to avoid problems Hey, I loved my Keeler monocular direct ophthalmoscopes, they just never made them to fit into the standard charging wells on the stands so, I always grabbed the Welch Allen scopes out of the stand wells and the Keelers just never got used. Now the battery/lcd Binocular Indirects by Keeler are so nice and my Welch Allens just get used as expensive transilluminators. Anyway, just one point; I keep hearing that you have to do some sort of dance with the cards, like format in the camera and don't swap with other cameras and don't delete or never on the computer and it all sounds like some sort of non-scientific voodoo to me... because, I never do any of this and have never had a problem. My point is, I really think the problem lies somewhere else and the problem occurs when it occurs. Might be intermittent hardware and/or a software problem, but I'm not convinced yet that all of these rules are needed on the cameras that are non-problematic. I bet I am not alone in being the only one that doesn't pay much attention to how carefully I handle the card issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted July 31, 2011 Share #46 Posted July 31, 2011 I think we can agree that the M9 is finicky - based on that observation I tend to use what I consider best practices for the M9. Some great tips can be found in the FAQ.... It is not a long list but I always format cards in the M9 and have dedicated cards that are not used in my other cameras, I use cards that are recommended by Leica or at the very least I have thoroughly tested. I shoot, then when finished take the card from the M9 and import and review the images in Lightroom as provided by Leica, the re-format the card. I keep the batteries charged and have several to ensure I have what I need. If Murphy is working as he should - things will fail at the least opportune time - so I always work to mitigate the work of Mr. Murphy, no matter the camera or system, etc. I too have an X100 - believe me it is quite capable of locking up and if you don't format the card in the camera after each use as opposed to deleting the images the camera slows to a crawl. So I format that card after each use. Simple as that. I am sorry for the loss with OP - I know that can hurt. Best to all. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 31, 2011 Share #47 Posted July 31, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) But again, Terry, how do you prove these practices are any more effective than not doing them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 31, 2011 Share #48 Posted July 31, 2011 A quick search on SD card problems with Nikon, Canon, Samsung reveals some reported problems with those cameras too. I have no idea on prevalence nor what happened for the original poster here. I have never experienced any problems with several models of genuine Sandisk cards in my M8 or M9. Well - these card thing and hanging up stuff and so on seems to be solved by Samsung, Canon, Nikon, Sony .........it sure do is an area for Leica to improve on. The concept should be fail safe..... A customer should not even need to think about this problem...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelduck Posted July 31, 2011 Share #49 Posted July 31, 2011 As you might have noticed from the other topics. Leica has acknowledged the issue and is looking for the cause. I find it odd, how some people are just willing to ignore a fault in a product and make it a feature in their minds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 31, 2011 Share #50 Posted July 31, 2011 As you might have noticed from the other topics. Leica has acknowledged the issue and is looking for the cause. I find it odd, how some people are just willing to ignore a fault in a product and make it a feature in their minds. Name one.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelduck Posted July 31, 2011 Share #51 Posted July 31, 2011 Name one.... I am not going to point fingers. But every one who comes into these topics telling that you should not delete pictures (why there is a delete button then?), or you should not view you pictures while the M9 is writing to the disk (why is it possible then?), or you should format your card very time, or lock it before you put it to a computer...etc. The camera should not loose pictures under normal operations. (I format my card, and avoid pressing the play etc. but it is not because I think it is normal. It is because I know the M9 has a problem and that seems I try keep me pictures. My M9 has been invited to Solms though, because of the issue and I hope they can fix it. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 31, 2011 Share #52 Posted July 31, 2011 Steelduck, you said that, "some people are just willing to ignore a fault in a product and make it a feature in their minds." Just asking who the "some people" are you refer to with a smile that stated it was a feature or is willing to ignore the issue by suggesting protocols (that may or may not help people have less problems). I think you are misinterpreting their suggestions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted July 31, 2011 Share #53 Posted July 31, 2011 A quick search on SD card problems with Nikon, Canon, Samsung reveals some reported problems with those cameras too. I have no idea on prevalence nor what happened for the original poster here.I have never experienced any problems with several models of genuine Sandisk cards in my M8 or M9. Geoff - same experience. This implies no disrespect to the OP. However, as there are so many counterfeit SD cards out there I think we all need to be extremely cautious. I bought counterfeits from an Amazon re-seller and my M9 wouldn't write to them. The reseller replaced with cards that had been sourced from another supplier. End of problem. This can be useful: eBay.co.uk Guides - FAKE SanDisk Ultra Secure Digital Cards Exposed eBay.co.uk Guides - How to spot FAKE Sandisk Extreme III 2Gb SD cards eBay - Fake Sandisk Fake SD Cards Fake Extreme III Cards Counterfeit Sandisk Cards Counterfeit SD Extreme Cards, Similar items search How to spot a fake SDHC card - iAudiophile.net Forums eBay Seller Of Counterfeit SanDisk SDHC Extreme Fake Cards, margarita.marjorie United Kingdom Stopped. Did You Buy From This Seller? Did You Know You Could Report Fraudulent SanDisk eBay Sellers? It looks like it's a dangerous world out there full of unscrupulous, thoroughly unpleasant people Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted July 31, 2011 Share #54 Posted July 31, 2011 Shot a wedding last week with an M9 and an M9-P for the first time. Each Sandisk card was formatted in-camera twice in advance. In the middle of the day, after 4 hours shooting the M9-P locked up 3 times in a 5 minute period. Battery pulled and didn't clear it twice, but resumed in it's own time. No other problems experienced in the 10 hour gig. In 5 years of shooting 70,000 frames with Canon 1D IIN & IV, had lock-up issue just once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted July 31, 2011 Share #55 Posted July 31, 2011 I've experienced the problem several times with my M8 and came to the conclusion that it was the card and not the battery. This was based on the assumption that the firmware operates like a state machine and if states are not completed the camera cannot return to its initial state without a full power down. Only removing the battery and letting the internal capacitors drain seemed to solve the problem. Or rather, tossing out my 4MB Sandisk Extreme cards and moving to a cheapo Transcend 8GB card solved the problem (or at least appears to have done so for the last 6 months or so). Could be I had a bad SD card but I've had nothing but trouble with Sandisk cards over the years in my PDAs and cameras and now avoid them. BTW, I fully support the advice that you must format all cards in camera and if possible before starting a major shoot. Do not format them in a SD reader or similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted July 31, 2011 Share #56 Posted July 31, 2011 Hi I can loan you a stand by M2, full frame, but if you take the film to a mini lab they are sure to lose, damage, etc., nice highlights if it is sunny... If you get a X100 it may be worse, its firmware is also still 'bedding in', early adaptors nees to be cautious, like a 2nd M9... To be fair most of the time I use a Canon. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 31, 2011 Share #57 Posted July 31, 2011 Steelduck, you said that, "some people are just willing to ignore a fault in a product and make it a feature in their minds." Just asking who the "some people" are you refer to with a smile that stated it was a feature or is willing to ignore the issue by suggesting protocols (that may or may not help people have less problems). I think you are misinterpreting their suggestions. Rick, Could I please ask you a favor, helping to see whether your M9 is affected with the same problems or not? If your answer is no, please ignore my post and I apologize. If your answer is yes, please do the following: Set to C not S Set M9 to power down automatically after 1 minute Shoot DNG & JPG fine Use bracketing as well Fiddle with the controls in the back while images are being stored Zoom in, move within an image etc. Delete an image or two in camera Also, just switch camera off while it's still busy Please note, as the problem is intermittent your camera won't fail on demand So you need to keep it up for awhile, say for the next 1000 images The purpose is to help debug the M9 Of course, one would never behave like that if one's interest is just taking pictures However, all those actions are permitted by Leica's user manual Please, let us know if your camera eventually fails or not. Many thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted July 31, 2011 Share #58 Posted July 31, 2011 ...Of course, one would never behave like that if one's interest is just taking pictures However, all those actions are permitted by Leica's user manual ... Hi Lots of software has bugs, all you can do is wait until next release and get the other users to see if the new software introduces more annoying ones than it fixes, before you do the upgrade, as well as keeping the current upgrade just in case you have to revert. You can try and do the things that might provoke fault(s) or you can be cautious. If you are lucky Leica will fix some of the faults. I'd recommend one of those card back up devices for the gbag... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 31, 2011 Share #59 Posted July 31, 2011 Hi Lots of software has bugs, all you can do is wait until next release and get the other users to see if the new software introduces more annoying ones than it fixes, before you do the upgrade, as well as keeping the current upgrade just in case you have to revert. You can try and do the things that might provoke fault(s) or you can be cautious. If you are lucky Leica will fix some of the faults. I'd recommend one of those card back up devices for the gbag... Noel Many thanks. Exactly, typically that's what happens. However, in this case it's different and Leica needs some help. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted July 31, 2011 Share #60 Posted July 31, 2011 Hi If the fault does not repeat on their instrumented camera 'rig' then they only have code inspection as a diagnostic mechanism, and then even if they find a fault by inspection, no way of telling if the fault they find is the one (or one of the set) that is annoying you. Suggest (to Leica) that you could be a beta test person for next firmware version. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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