chucky666 Posted July 29, 2011 Share #1 Posted July 29, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I dropped off a roll of ektar at the local pro Lab. Picked it up yesterday and they processed it as black and white! I had flown to take thèse pics and used the pro lab because quality mattered. They made no offer to compensate, but i canot just retape these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Hi chucky666, Take a look here What would you do?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
giordano Posted July 29, 2011 Share #2 Posted July 29, 2011 1) Weep. 2) Talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau or someone else who knows a bit about consumer law. I'm sure the lab's standard terms of service deny any liability, but it's possible that in your jurisdiction the law is such that standard terms won't protect them against gross negligence like putting the film in the wrong processing line. 3) For next time, read some of AlanG's posts which mention the precautions he took when doing hard-to-repeat shoots with film cameras: e.g. use more than one camera and more than one roll of film, don't send all the film to be processed at the same time, and so on. Or switch to digital so you can check and back up the images before the shoot ends (g,d&r). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted July 30, 2011 Share #3 Posted July 30, 2011 I dropped off a roll of ektar at the local pro Lab. Picked it up yesterday and they processed it as black and white! I had flown to take thèse pics and used the pro lab because quality mattered. They made no offer to compensate, but i canot just retape these. grit your teeth... put it down to experience and retain your composure. Don't sweat it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky666 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted July 30, 2011 I'm very annoyed by the whole episode. I hand delivered it to the lab and trusted them with the film, because, well, they're supposed to be the premier local lab. And I pay alot for their services. I never expected them to ruin the film with such a rookie mistake. I don't see myself ever using them again. For B&W, I'll process myself and get a scanner. For color, I'll have to find something else. And depending on what they offer as compensation, (a roll of film (so far not offered) or some $$ towards airfare/location fees to dupe the shot) I will or will not publish a photo of their note saying they screwed up my film and therefore didn't charge me for processing it. I may do that in any case, as a service for other photogs considering using these people. I hope I don't have to go so far as doubling up on shots, but maybe some cases in the future will warrant such obsessive risk mitigation. I realize there's more drama with film, and because of that I love shooting it, but this does not fall into the welcome drama category. I"ve also considered revenge: Maybe when they're not looking, I'll slip a big red ball on their nose, replace their shoe with oversized red shoes, and replace their car with a tiny car, covered with paintings of large daisys. When they get in their car and drive, everyone will laugh at them because they look like clowns. I'll run up with a pale of confetti and throw it all over them, or shoot them with a water pistol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 30, 2011 Share #5 Posted July 30, 2011 Your experience has opened an old wound of mine. Many years ago, I managed to score an assignment that every big photographer in town lusted after. It was an open ticket to anywhere, for as long as it took, to collect travel destination photos for one of Australia's premier airlines. It transpired to be a 'difficult' assignment but I coped. Upon returning home I dropped hundreds of transparency and Col neg film off at one of Melbourne's then premier labs. They processed it all as C41. I was totally discredited by the client and never offered any compensation by the lab. However, all's well that ends well, eventually. The experience catapulted me into doing all my own processing, reasoning that I could muck it up just as well as any lab! True. The bottom line is that (until they closed ) Melbourne's other premier lab actually referred work to me. My now recently refurbed darkroom system works faultlessly and every process is double or triple checked by an expert (me) before proceeding. No, I'm not infallible either, but I do have a better track record than the labs. I think you can extract the moral from the story. I hope you can see your way to act on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted July 30, 2011 Share #6 Posted July 30, 2011 #1 Talk to the owner. The monkeys with the ties can't do anything. #2 Don't be afraid to ASK for compensation. Most businesses/people don't bother to even mention it now a day. #3 Have proof that THEY messed up. Paperwork is sooooo important, now more than ever (in today's digital age). #4 Threaten to go public, write to newspapers, photographic forums, etc etc etc. Them losing 1 customer is nothing, them losing 10... 50... 100... You get the idea. #5 Threaten legal actions if needed (last, last, last option). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 30, 2011 Share #7 Posted July 30, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) "I had flown to take thèse pics and used the pro lab because quality mattered" Seriously, you only took 1 roll and you dropped it "all" of in one bath...? This is like the original pro and amateur problem, "rolls get fuc*** up..." Stuff happens, make sure you cover your bases, run a test strip first if its the only roll etc. this is the stuff photo magazines talked about when my father was running 120 kodak chrome decades ago. misunderstand me right here. I'm not dismissing your loss, (or Erl's for that matter, Erl, loosing a full shoot have got to hurt like crazy.) its just that I have lived my life with this risk, have have had too many rolls wrongly processed. Forget about lab's liability, they would not touch your film unless you accepted the risk, in one or another form. I wish there was a meaningful way to get compensation, but labs don't compensate images of weddings on exotic islands etc.. *noteworthy several brides have manged to sue the photographer for f**ing up their wedding pictures.. but I have never heard about a lab actually being held responsible for their mistakes. other than handing out some free rolls of film and processing that is. Ultimately it is a risk we all live with, drop film off in batches, don't drop it all at one time. Yes DO talk to the owner, but expect a friendly and apologetic chat, try to do it a place where he can buy you a beer, because he is not going to buy you a new airline ticket and pay for the crew and models to show up again. Sorry for your loss, I know how it feels, but I don't believe you have any real course of action other than learn some expensive and very hard lessons, and do not be in this situation again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 30, 2011 Share #8 Posted July 30, 2011 Bo, everything you said is correct. Part of a common problem is that sooo often work is 'urgent' and the pressure to get it done NOW is ever/often present. This (sort of) demands, process all at once. Labs know this and professional labs do a damned good job in the main, but they can still make mistakes. I eliminated 'their' mistakes and replaced them with 'mine'. I have found the failure rate to be greatly improved. Not to mention the much faster turnaround. This is not practical for everyone, but where possible it is highly desirable. Life, it would seem, is about risk and it's management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 30, 2011 Share #9 Posted July 30, 2011 Erl, Totally agreeing on the risk-management part. So sorry to hear how you got into the business of processing. yeah, this is a thing that is always in a rush, running a few rolls before we wrap a shoot, we all want to see film before calling it. So many of my friends did get E6 processors and some C41, a lot of those were shooting 120, 4x5 and 8x10 for clients. and there is nothing like having a devoted assistant scrub and fine-tune a processor. but those sheets of 4x5 film processing is suddenly hugely expensive to process, and it is only feasible as part of operating cost on the studio. its worth it in terms of quality, and it is quite often a sign of a top professional studio. (don't ask how often I have dropped by asking if they could run a few rolls for me while the soup is hot anyway, keeping a healthy E6 going almost always requires a steady diet of film, its not for weekend shooters..) Shooting cars and commercial stuff, we constantly shot second sheets, second rolls, never ever to be processed, but just waiting for the day stuff happened. I totally realize this is not possible on a "decisive moment" street shot. using a trusted lab and hoping.... Chucky, I'm not dismissing what happened to you, only saying that chances are you can't make a living from the camera without this happening once or twice in your life, it always sucks, my luck is that I never have been hurt as bad as Erl was, and probably as you was. next on the list is a malfunctioning shutter at a critical shoot, clicking and shooting and everything.. ahh just not exposing the film... don't ask how I thought of that. Bo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 30, 2011 Share #10 Posted July 30, 2011 Bo, I get around the 'low volume diet' these days by using a JOBO which is essentially a one shot processor. Not the most efficient use of chemistry, but totally consistent which is vital. Hmm. That shutter failure you alluded to reminds me of a an event that sparked my investing in a spare Hasselblad body. Ever since I have had the backup body (many years), I have never needed it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted July 30, 2011 Share #11 Posted July 30, 2011 I"ve also considered revenge: Maybe when they're not looking, I'll slip a big red ball on their nose, replace their shoe with oversized red shoes, and replace their car with a tiny car, covered with paintings of large daisys. When they get in their car and drive, everyone will laugh at them because they look like clowns. I'll run up with a pale of confetti and throw it all over them, or shoot them with a water pistol. Awesome plan... I love it. Give me a call when you pull it off I will come and shoot it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessasusual Posted July 30, 2011 Share #12 Posted July 30, 2011 I"ve also considered revenge: Maybe when they're not looking, I'll slip a big red ball on their nose, replace their shoe with oversized red shoes, and replace their car with a tiny car, covered with paintings of large daisys. When they get in their car and drive, everyone will laugh at them because they look like clowns. I'll run up with a pale of confetti and throw it all over them, or shoot them with a water pistol. LOL - you're not called Chucky666 for nothin'. Good one!!! :D:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky666 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted July 30, 2011 "I had flown to take thèse pics and used the pro lab because quality mattered" Seriously, you only took 1 roll and you dropped it "all" of in one bath...? Forget about lab's liability, they would not touch your film unless you accepted the risk, in one or another form. It was kind of a limited opportunity, there were some cool special lights, it was late at night, and I had a good spot to shoot from. I shot a roll of black and white. Then I shot a roll of C41. So I have black and white shots of the scene, and those are pretty cool. I also have the cross processed shots, which is like a second black and white roll. I didn't consider redundancy on the rolls, because, frankly, I've never had this happen to me, anywhere I had film processed, drugstores, mail order, other local labs, this lab, and I figured going to the local premier pro lab would ensure some safety. As far as liability, they do have an agreement that they make you sign that limits their liability to replacing the film. However, they never had me sign the agreement, so their liability is not limited. It's a goof on their part. Just like the processing goof. In the end it is the price of an education. I've been playing it risky for some time, without really being aware of it, and I got burnt. I think that people here have brought up some steps that I can take to stack the deck in my favor, including redundancy, processing on my own, and dropping off rolls in batches. I thank you all for pointing out steps I can take to prevent this in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted July 30, 2011 Share #14 Posted July 30, 2011 grit your teeth... put it down to experience and retain your composure. Don't sweat it. Yes, and don't use that lab ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted July 30, 2011 Share #15 Posted July 30, 2011 truth is... I gave up using labs years ago. Down here in Tasmania printing options were very limited with only one pro lab in town. I therefore used to send my 120 films to Sydney or Melbourne to be processed and then later send the negs back to get printed. Quality was graet. Enter the digital era... nobody seemed to have a correct notion of colour space and my portraits were coming back with skin tones that looked like cadavers (true story). Anyhow, I have been printing all my work on Epsons for about 8 years now. I would not even consider handing my work over for some (clown) to print :D:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 31, 2011 Share #16 Posted July 31, 2011 The sad(?) fact is that this digital era is a monster that is eating itself! Skills and care levels are being eroded such that we all eventually turn to a "do it your self" solution. This ultimately destroys skilled professional services, but does 'upskill' the consumer, maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted July 31, 2011 Share #17 Posted July 31, 2011 yea well being forced to be fully involved with image creation has certainly up-skilled me. Who 10 years ago would have dreamed that as photographers we would not only make the images in the camera but have the ability to carry out advanced darkroom type skills and then make prints. I can do all of that without stepping outside the studio. For all its downsides it is truly wonderful really. I wonder how the likes of Nulab... Bond Colour etc will survive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted July 31, 2011 Share #18 Posted July 31, 2011 yea well being forced to be fully involved with image creation has certainly up-skilled me.Who 10 years ago would have dreamed that as photographers we would not only make the images in the camera but have the ability to carry out advanced darkroom type skills and then make prints. I can do all of that without stepping outside the studio. For all its downsides it is truly wonderful really. I wonder how the likes of Nulab... Bond Colour etc will survive. 100% agreed. AND it's available to the average Joe (with enough money and of course interest to learn the skills). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 31, 2011 Share #19 Posted July 31, 2011 Nulab & Bond will survive into the foreseeable future because they have a large and regular client base. It is when that client base is threatened by 'new technology' + amateurs who think they can 'do that job' that the labs will see a difference. The rot starts from the bottom up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted July 31, 2011 Share #20 Posted July 31, 2011 Nulab & Bond will survive into the foreseeable future because they have a large and regular client base. It is when that client base is threatened by 'new technology' + amateurs who think they can 'do that job' that the labs will see a difference. The rot starts from the bottom up. Well those times must be closing in rapidly from what I am seeing. In the last 2 years my studio turnover and inquiry rate has nosedived like a Kamikaze. You can attribute that to whatever you like, but the fact is I was making a nice living from my photography. Now with the change in technology, there are new 'professionals' appearing all over the place charging a fraction of what I do. I am actually 2 years into an arts degree. I saw the writing on the wall and thought it might be a good idea to upskill just in case. Glad I made that decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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